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Return of the Kings | Feedback

Moderators:  robo,  T-West,  EscapeAoE,  ZeroEmpires

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Re: Return of the Kings | Feedback

Postby  John the Late » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:21 pm

Nili Cameraman was great, always on the most important places and pointing out stuff with the mouse. Please have him in future tournaments, too! :D
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Re: Return of the Kings | Feedback

Postby  Jineapple » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:04 am

My two (or a few more) cents:

  • I prefer the Single Elim Bo3 to the Double Elimination format, Bo1 just doesn't feel like it's enough
  • 2v2 was interesting, would be nice to see even larger teamgames
  • Nili as cameraman - I'm torn on this. I personally loved it and how he would always point out interesting stuff, but I can understand the critcism of the camera and casting not focusing on the same thing, it can be a bit jarring. I think the "safer" set up is to keep it as the caster POV and do the aNILIsys afterwards ;)
  • Having a setup like the one at DreamHack you posted would be amazing of course, but in the meantime I think that a streamer switch once a day wouldn't be too jarring even if the stream is offline for a short while. The other streamers would needs the OBS scenes of course.
  • On the Spec Overlay thing: Are there any events for Voobly planned? HD as the main focus makes sense of course with the draw of the new civs/balance, but I would love to see the Escape team of casters do a Voobly event with Overlay etc. available as well. I do miss that sorely. And just in general I think it makes sense to feature both platforms just to show it doesn't have to be one vs. the other
  • I would like to see improvements to the chat&moderation during the event. One of the things I like about the smaller size of the aoc community is that you know a lot of people and you can actually have proper conversations in twitch chats. However, in the escapeaoe chat, that's missing a bit. Not everyone may agree with me here, but I find the twitch spam just tedious and not entertaining. One simple example: For the giveaway, "!raja" would trigger Nightbot to post a link to the giveaway - But in the stream, it just said "Type !raja in chat" resulting in tons of players spamming that - Probably some thinking it would enter them and others just to spam.
    There are also no rules or moderation guidelines, with Mods having different standards for timeouts and bans, at times even actively working against another. I would personally like a more heavily moderated chat (on spam and personal attacks), but I can understand if a more "lax" approach is taken as well, as long the rules are consistent, clearly communicated and enforced (to the degree that that's possible in a fast-moving chat of course)
  • I like the weekend events, but they can be exhausting even for viewers. Having two in a row was quite a big AoE overdose. They should be kept to once a month at most, otherwise it just becomes overwhelming.
Last edited by  Jineapple on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
AoC/AK Cheat sheet (*all* attack bonuses, unit stats, civ bonuses&techs!):
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Re: Return of the Kings | Feedback

Postby  Ghazna » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:04 am

  22 Feb 2017, 00:04 GMT » Jineapple wrote:
[*]Nili as cameraman - I'm torn on this. I personally loved it and how he would always point out interesting stuff, but I can understand the critcism of the camera and casting not focusing on the same thing, it can be a bit jarring. I think the "safer" set up is to keep it as the caster POV and do the aNILIsys afterwards ;)


I liked Nili's camera control as well, and he was pointing out interesting/important things. In some cases, he was indicating pretty important stuff that main casters were missing at that time and I was wondering why doesn't Nili just interrupt and say sth about that (I think a few times he let Zero know privately and then he started talking about that stuff, but that felt awkward as Zero was like, "Oh ok.." ? I recall that in either EGM 1 or 2, there was 3 way casting with Zero/Res/Nili and Nili was commentating only at important points in the game and sharing his thoughts on strategy/game situation and I think such a format would be nice. Also, I agree with Jineapple that lack of sync between camera location and main casters' commentary does make it look quite incomplete (like a narration with missing pieces). Considering this I think bringing in Nili sometimes as a 3rd commentator would be a good solution.
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Re: Return of the Kings | Feedback

Postby  ZeroEmpires » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:00 am

There was no private communication during the commentary going on. It's just very easy to miss things when you are casting for one simple reason: when you're casting and controlling the camera at the same time (like we are used to doing) you keep the camera on the thing you're talking about. So let's say you start talking about something and it takes you 60 seconds to complete your thought process on that thing, In the mean time other more interesting stuff could be happening. But as a caster you have to keep your pov on the thing that you're talking about until it has finished before looking to something else.
When you're not casting and keeping that in mind it's much easier to flick around and look at other stuff as well. Now normally, it's easier to break off and catch the more interesting stuff mid-thought when you have a spectator dashboard to alert you to things. Which is sadly missing in HD right now.

Anyway, as I said earlier, I have a realllllly interesting plan for having the caster's commentate the pov of the cameraman without controlling anything themselves in-game
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Re: Return of the Kings | Feedback

Postby  i_no_english » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:26 am

Couple of things:

- Overlay, but that has already been addressed;
- Please show the villager count more often or at least point out that someone is ahead in economy. There are a lot of noob viewers in the chat who don't really understand the mechanics of the game. In a situation where 1 player goes aggressive with lets say mangonels and the other one booms and defends, the latter should be ahead in eco. The casters never show this and to the viewers it seems like the aggressive player is way ahead because he has much more army and is making more kills. If the defending player ends up winning you'll get a load of stupid shit in the chat like 'OMG AMAZING BACK' while it was actually just an even game the entire time.
- No snow patch, always;
- Too many water maps in my opinion, maybe have a mandatory Arabia or a map pack with more land maps;
- New vs old format on a nomad start type map is extremely unfair because of Chinese and Mayans.
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Re: Return of the Kings | Feedback

Postby  BruZi » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:13 pm

  22 Feb 2017, 00:04 GMT » Jineapple wrote:
My two (or a few more) cents:

  • I would like to see improvements to the chat&moderation during the event. One of the things I like about the smaller size of the aoc community is that you know a lot of people and you can actually have proper conversations in twitch chats. However, in the escapeaoe chat, that's missing a bit. Not everyone may agree with me here, but I find the twitch spam just tedious and not entertaining. One simple example: For the giveaway, "!raja" would trigger Nightbot to post a link to the giveaway - But in the stream, it just said "Type !raja in chat" resulting in tons of players spamming that - Probably some thinking it would enter them and others just to spam.
    There are also no rules or moderation guidelines, with Mods having different standards for timeouts and bans, at times even actively working against another. I would personally like a more heavily moderated chat (on spam and personal attacks), but I can understand if a more "lax" approach is taken as well, as long the rules are consistent, clearly communicated and enforced (to the degree that that's possible in a fast-moving chat of course)


Totally agree... some good conversations on the chat are overwhelmed by spams and then get thrown off...
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Re: Return of the Kings | Feedback

Postby  dorje » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:54 pm

  22 Feb 2017, 10:26 GMT » i_no_english wrote:
Couple of things:
- Please show the villager count more often or at least point out that someone is ahead in economy. There are a lot of noob viewers in the chat who don't really understand the mechanics of the game. In a situation where 1 player goes aggressive with lets say mangonels and the other one booms and defends, the latter should be ahead in eco. The casters never show this and to the viewers it seems like the aggressive player is way ahead because he has much more army and is making more kills. If the defending player ends up winning you'll get a load of stupid shit in the chat like 'OMG AMAZING BACK' while it was actually just an even game the entire time.


+1
us noobs require more feeding the information.
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