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Further Discussion on Balance Changes

Moderators:  _Taff,  Voobly,  Carlos Ferdinand

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Re: Further Discussion on Balance Changes

Postby  SouFire » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:55 pm

Any change or moved bonus is just wrong, chineses doesn't need the teuton bonus,they start with 7 units to quick exploring, making the bonus pointless, migrating bonus to other civs is just wrong, changing their original and unique build order is also wrong, most players doesn't know what to do with chinese, but with enough games and experencie their start is very good at their best they can be 2 vills ahead, the average is +1 vills and few seconds, even in the worst cases going for berries will keep them in the same pop than normal civs, only a 1400 who is trying to use them as huns will be behind in vills or migh have difficulties upping to feudal.

In the past i used to think they really need a change for water maps, because on island they suffer a lot, but if you modify a little the stantard build order for water there won't be further problems, sometimes the civs are not the problem, it is how we use them.
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Re: Further Discussion on Balance Changes

Postby  Carlos Ferdinand » Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:53 pm

Militia are created in 21 sec Gary. Aztecs have them made in 18 sec regular aoc. And 21 in patch dark age.

In feudal swords, spears, skirms are made in -1 sec and archers -2 sec.

In castle xbows -3 sec eagles -4 sec (than mayans)
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Re: Further Discussion on Balance Changes

Postby  Cysion » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:06 pm

  25 Jun 2015, 22:44 GMT » Carlos Ferdinand wrote:
Any attempt to suggest the changes being a plagarism of FE is utterly ridiculous.

I don't think anyone should or could possibly claim this. The only thing it really proves is that there's a lot of overlap between balance efforts & how to move balancing forwards in AoE2, which is great news. 8-)
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Re: Further Discussion on Balance Changes

Postby  Carlos Ferdinand » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:48 pm

  03 Jul 2015, 14:06 GMT » Cysion wrote:
  25 Jun 2015, 22:44 GMT » Carlos Ferdinand wrote:
Any attempt to suggest the changes being a plagarism of FE is utterly ridiculous.

I don't think anyone should or could possibly claim this. The only thing it really proves is that there's a lot of overlap between balance efforts & how to move balancing forwards in AoE2, which is great news. 8-)
Yeah agree! :)
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Re: Further Discussion on Balance Changes

Postby  Richard » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:10 pm

There is one thing to consider when nerfing the Viking ship cost bonus. They dont get Shipwright. This means, that their ships cost the same wood in Imperial as other civs with Shipwright. They cost less gold, but they are produced slower, since Shipwright reduces build time too. If their cost bonus is nerfed, they can easily end up building more expensive ships slower than a good water civ with shipwright. If it is a problem, or not, I dont know. I just wanted to point it out. Maybe it gives room for Longboats?

On the other hand, I think Vikings are kind of problematic. They rule the water in early ages. And I think they should (because of their history), but other civs should not be completely helpless against them either... It is very hard to balance. Maybe a weak Imperial Age can be a good balance for their strong Feudal and Castle? But making them weak on water as well as on land in Imperial is a horrible judgement for them.

Just a few thoughts.
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Re: Further Discussion on Balance Changes

Postby  John the Late » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:28 am

I have to continue claiming that feudal water combat can't be balanced if there's only a single military ship type.
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Re: Further Discussion on Balance Changes

Postby  Carlos Ferdinand » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:41 am

  03 Jul 2015, 20:10 GMT » Richard wrote:
There is one thing to consider when nerfing the Viking ship cost bonus. They dont get Shipwright. This means, that their ships cost the same wood in Imperial as other civs with Shipwright. They cost less gold, but they are produced slower, since Shipwright reduces build time too. If their cost bonus is nerfed, they can easily end up building more expensive ships slower than a good water civ with shipwright. If it is a problem, or not, I dont know. I just wanted to point it out. Maybe it gives room for Longboats?

On the other hand, I think Vikings are kind of problematic. They rule the water in early ages. And I think they should (because of their history), but other civs should not be completely helpless against them either... It is very hard to balance. Maybe a weak Imperial Age can be a good balance for their strong Feudal and Castle? But making them weak on water as well as on land in Imperial is a horrible judgement for them.

Just a few thoughts.
There is no nerf to viking navy in imperial age. See below:

Warships cost -10%/-15%/-20% in feudal/castle/imperial (instead of 20% in all ages).


About Teutons:

- Lose TC LOS bonus.
- Fish traps also cost -33%.
- Teutonic knights move 10% faster.
- Non-elite TKs have 80 HP (instead of 70), 6 armor (instead of 5).
- Get siege rams, shipwright.
While they lost the TC LOS bonus, they are given improvements to their later game to make up for it. (Fish traps can help in some maps)
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Re: Further Discussion on Balance Changes

Postby  chifeiyen » Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:12 pm

I think the Berserk should get +1 pierce armor, and +3/+5 bonus attach to cavalry, HP can fix to 54/62 (65/75 after civ bonus)

and the production time resduce -2s,just 14s,which is the same as the African Kingdoms.
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Re: Further Discussion on Balance Changes

Postby  chifeiyen » Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:05 pm

Besides, Japan and Britons do not need to get treadmill crane,Teutons have seige ram is too OP
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Re: Further Discussion on Balance Changes

Postby  BlotchedyDooDah » Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:08 pm

Give Saracens Cavalier
Innovation > Fundamentalism
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