Problems registering at AoCZone?
You can try resending activation email. If that doesnt work you can send an email here. If you forgot your password click here.
 Main Menu

 ForumsSearch »

 King of the Desert

 Masters of Arena 5

 Escape Gaming

 Polaris Series

 AoC Recorded Games

 AoE2HD Recorded Games

 AoFE Recorded Games

 Major Past Tournaments

 Users currently online
Members (41)
»  _JB_
»  _KAMI
»  Ator
»  ebbu
»  gazu
»  LzNi
»  mma96
»  Poxo
»  Zoso
Guests (122)

 AoC Clans Add yours »

 Links

 Auto downloadedFind »

 Ads

Logic behind Winner/Loser Bracket and Grand Final

Moderator:  Nonsensical

Advertisement from Google 
 

Logic behind Winner/Loser Bracket and Grand Final

Postby  ILMCS » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:31 pm

Hi,

I know this is a popular format and was used before. You lose in the elimination round, you move to the loser bracket. You win out there, you gonna face the winner of the winner bracket in the Grand Final. The of the GF is the overall winner, right?

How does this make sense. You lose early in a tournament and can still win the whole tournament. You lose the final of the winner bracket, and you have no chance to win the whole thing?

So, Brazil B totally smashed Brazil A, yet, if Finland beats Brazil B and Brazil A wins the loser bracket and then beats Finland, Brazil A is the overall winner. I am struggling to find the logic.
User avatar
 ILMCS
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 01, 2013
 
 

Re: Logic behind Winner/Loser Bracket and Grand Final

Postby  Jineapple » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:41 pm

  17 Aug 2017, 12:31 GMT » ILMCS wrote:
Hi,

I know this is a popular format and was used before. You lose in the elimination round, you move to the loser bracket. You win out there, you gonna face the winner of the winner bracket in the Grand Final. The of the GF is the overall winner, right?

How does this make sense. You lose early in a tournament and can still win the whole tournament. You lose the final of the winner bracket, and you have no chance to win the whole thing?

So, Brazil B totally smashed Brazil A, yet, if Finland beats Brazil B and Brazil A wins the loser bracket and then beats Finland, Brazil A is the overall winner. I am struggling to find the logic.


No, if the winners' bracket team loses the first final, then another final is played, and the winner of that is the winner of the tournament. If they win the first final, they are immediately the tournament winner without playing a second final.
Play HD expansions on Voobly: https://github.com/Jineapple/WololoKingdoms
Tooltip mod for AoC: http://www.voobly.com/gamemods/mod/665/Max-Extended-Help (Available in English, German, Spanish and Italian!)
Cheat Sheet for AoC/Expansions: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=548698803
 Jineapple
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Oct 20, 2015
 

Re: Logic behind Winner/Loser Bracket and Grand Final

Postby  pumukel » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:52 pm

  17 Aug 2017, 12:31 GMT » ILMCS wrote:
You lose the final of the winner bracket, and you have no chance to win the whole thing?

The loser of the Winners Bracket Final goes down to the Losers Bracket and gets a second chance like any other participant.

Most Double Elimination discussions evolve around the right format of the Grand Final (two sets? expandable set? extra homemaps? WiC style?). There are no settings yet for the NC17 Grand Final.
User avatar
 pumukel
Admin
 
Posts: 2364
Joined: Dec 11, 2012
 

Re: Logic behind Winner/Loser Bracket and Grand Final

Postby  ZeroEmpires » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:00 pm

It's also common to give the winner bracket team some advantage, such as more home maps or civ pick advantage if drafting is used (instead of having another grand final). This was the format used at TI7 this year too
User avatar
 ZeroEmpires
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Mar 20, 2015
Location: England
Age: 25
 

Re: Logic behind Winner/Loser Bracket and Grand Final

Postby  Raptor22 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:10 pm

  17 Aug 2017, 13:00 GMT » ZeroEmpires wrote:
It's also common to give the winner bracket team some advantage, such as more home maps or civ pick advantage if drafting is used (instead of having another grand final). This was the format used at TI7 this year too


Or maybe 1 map advantage in a BO7.
 Raptor22
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Jul 24, 2017
 
Advertisement from Google 
 

Re: Logic behind Winner/Loser Bracket and Grand Final

Postby  Tarsiz » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:49 pm

To add up to what the others said,

So, Brazil B totally smashed Brazil A, yet, if Finland beats Brazil B and Brazil A wins the loser bracket and then beats Finland, Brazil A is the overall winner. I am struggling to find the logic.


If Finland beats Brazil B then Brazil B moves to the loser bracket final. Which means that if Brazil A has already won all the rest in the loser bracket, they would still need to play Brazil B (and win this time!) if they want to have a shot at the Grand Final against Finland.
 Tarsiz
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Feb 27, 2017
Location: Reykjavik
Age: 25
 

Re: Logic behind Winner/Loser Bracket and Grand Final

Postby  ILMCS » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:51 pm

  17 Aug 2017, 12:53 GMT » pumukel wrote:
  17 Aug 2017, 12:31 GMT » ILMCS wrote:
You lose the final of the winner bracket, and you have no chance to win the whole thing?

The loser of the Winners Bracket Final goes down to the Losers Bracket and gets a second chance like any other participant.

Most Double Elimination discussions evolve around the right format of the Grand Final (two sets? expandable set? extra homemaps? WiC style?). There are no settings yet for the NC17 Grand Final.


Yeah, now I see it. I missed that one. So the loser of the WB Final plays in the LB Final and can then actually face the same team again in the GF that they lost to in the WB Final, right :D

Then, it makes sense.

So WB and LB is actually simply to give a team a second chance?
User avatar
 ILMCS
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 01, 2013
 

Re: Logic behind Winner/Loser Bracket and Grand Final

Postby  NigelSlack » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:03 pm

Actually.... it was replaced.. in past, if the winner of the winniner bracket! lost the "grand final", there was a "2nd final", in order to give him a chance to lose 1 set aswell..

Nowadays it's changed for smtg like.. oh it's a B07.. but if the "winner bracket champion" loses, it'll become a BO11... don't like it either,. would be better two "Full setts" instead of chaning the BOXX
How to host
Image
 NigelSlack
Top Player
 
Posts: 908
Joined: Jul 04, 2010
Age: 26
 2000 (65%)
 

Re: Logic behind Winner/Loser Bracket and Grand Final

Postby  Jineapple » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:13 pm

  17 Aug 2017, 14:03 GMT » NigelSlack wrote:
Actually.... it was replaced.. in past, if the winner of the winniner bracket! lost the "grand final", there was a "2nd final", in order to give him a chance to lose 1 set aswell..

Nowadays it's changed for smtg like.. oh it's a B07.. but if the "winner bracket champion" loses, it'll become a BO11... don't like it either,. would be better two "Full setts" instead of chaning the BOXX


Oh, I had assumed this would be the case for NC17 as well. Imo, the only reason not to do this are time restrictions, but it's the most fair and balanced version. I guess it could be an issue if it's a LAN final that's only supposed to be one day.
Play HD expansions on Voobly: https://github.com/Jineapple/WololoKingdoms
Tooltip mod for AoC: http://www.voobly.com/gamemods/mod/665/Max-Extended-Help (Available in English, German, Spanish and Italian!)
Cheat Sheet for AoC/Expansions: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=548698803
 Jineapple
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Oct 20, 2015
 

Re: Logic behind Winner/Loser Bracket and Grand Final

Postby  von_miguel » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:45 pm

  17 Aug 2017, 13:10 GMT » Raptor22 wrote:
  17 Aug 2017, 13:00 GMT » ZeroEmpires wrote:
It's also common to give the winner bracket team some advantage, such as more home maps or civ pick advantage if drafting is used (instead of having another grand final). This was the format used at TI7 this year too


Or maybe 1 map advantage in a BO7.


This is how it is in every other game, and should be here aswell because in a BO7 fe. starting with 1-0 lead is already a big advantage.

All that bullshit of a second boX set or extending the current final set incase the team coming from WB is losing is just so dumb. In every bracket it says "grand final", it doesnt say "two grand finals incase the team from WB loses".
<INeedMoney> i whent to gym done 40 kilo bank press

<INeedMoney> thoughjt i was dying
 von_miguel
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Jun 09, 2013
 
 
Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Legend: Global moderators, News posters, Tournament moderators