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[KotD] Banner manipulation and much more

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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  Hermes_Arg » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:32 pm

  16 Nov 2017, 11:10 GMT » MaSmOrRa wrote:
Let's hope that this topic could fuel a renewed attempt from both parties to sit down and talk things through.

The fact that Chris mentioned in his post his past plans of a partnership with Escape Gaming kind of gives me hope that he could still be open to such a partnership in the near future. And as far as I can tell Zak hasn't completely closed that door either.

Because the truth is an agreement between ECG and Voobly would benefit everyone.

So come on guys:

- setup a meeting;
- talk things through in a calm and transparent manner;
- give the whole community a nice anticipated christmas present in the form of an official agreement between Voobly and ECG;
- GG EZ NO RE


Let's all cheers this ;)
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  Jineapple » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:01 pm

There have been a few important points mentioned in this thread so far that I want to reiterate, and add a few thoughts of my own:

  • Reaching an understanding would undoubtedly be advantageous to both parties. There's a lot to gain and really not much to lose.
  • Bringing up past incidents isn't very productive. Grudges are human nature and understandable, especially when there's broken trust involved, but at a certain point if something meaningful is supposed to be achieved, then it's important to move on. If you need to bring it up, make it "I do not want x to happen again because..." and not "We can't work together because you did x"
  • When two parties have quite different accounts of what happened, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. More importantly, unless there are malovelant intentions involved (a notion which we can safely dismiss I think :P), this is usually mostly to blame on miscommunication and people acting based on false premises due to those miscommunications. It would be a shame if there's needless "drama" because of that
  • There are certain advantages to having this discussion in a public forum: There's a clear account/record of what happened/what has been said, so there aren't different accounts from different people (which doesn't even mean that someone lied, just that the same thing has been interpreted differently) which also cuts down on counterproductive rumors. There are also more than two people involved in the discussion, which can have a moderating influence if it becomes heated or if there are misunderstandings.
  • At the same time, there also disadvantages - For one, with too many people involved, conversations aren't very focused anymore, plus there's also a risk of more accusations or misinformed opinions being thrown around.

Based on this, I agree with Masmora's suggestion of a calm talk between Voobly and Escape, with the additional suggestion of including a neutral third party who can both serve as a mediator to keep the talk calm and focused, without past grudges and possible misinformation clouding judgement, and as a record-keeper so that moving forward, if doubts should arise as to what was said/what happened, there's someone to refer to.

Both parties share a common goal of improving the aoc community, so if there's a serious effort from both, an agreement shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility :)
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  kw1k000000 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:01 pm

  15 Nov 2017, 23:43 GMT » SMB360 wrote:
Still waiting to hear where and when that $3500 USD of community-collected money I placed into your safekeeping will be used for its stated purpose.


Don't think you will ever hear about it, in the very same way the 5k+ USD which went entirely missing from Voobly donation fund due to "accounting mistakes".

----

On the original topic, No surprises. Genette has a feud against everyone but why Katsuni becomes a party to it. I thought Memb & Katsuni were quite friendly.
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  DFH_Risque » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:47 pm

  16 Nov 2017, 11:10 GMT » MaSmOrRa wrote:
Let's hope that this topic could fuel a renewed attempt from both parties to sit down and talk things through.

The fact that Chris mentioned in his post his past plans of a partnership with Escape Gaming kind of gives me hope that he could still be open to such a partnership in the near future. And as far as I can tell Zak hasn't completely closed that door either.

Because the truth is an agreement between ECG and Voobly would benefit everyone.

So come on guys:

- setup a meeting;
- talk things through in a calm and transparent manner;
- give the whole community a nice anticipated christmas present in the form of an official agreement between Voobly and ECG;
- GG EZ NO RE


fu I can't hope for drama when u come spreading love everywhere <3
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  Rgeadn » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:48 pm

+1 Nelson, long time no see but good to see that you're still around.

Based on this, I agree with Masmora's suggestion of a calm talk between Voobly and Escape, with the additional suggestion of including a neutral third party who can both serve as a mediator to keep the talk calm and focused, without past grudges and possible misinformation clouding judgement, and as a record-keeper so that moving forward, if doubts should arise as to what was said/what happened, there's someone to refer to.


The idea makes sense but what group/individuals would you propose to use as a 3rd party between the two groups? As far as I am aware no such persons exist or the people that would fit the role may not want to take such responsibility.

It also to me seems like adding a middle man will just make things more complicated than it already is and possibly lead to misunderstandings based off of information not being relayed properly.

Ideally it would be best if both parties, voobly and escape gaming, could decide upon representatives for their respective organisations to conduct talks?

It sounds like from the responses of both parties in this thread that redemption is neigh on impossible at this point, the feelings of both parties seem to be too strong to consider a mutual partnership. However it is nearly Christmas so maybe a miracle will happen! :angel:
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  ZeroEmpires » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:58 pm

Richard, this is one of the main reasons why I had Robo talk on behalf of Escape with Chris. I have tried to talk with Chris before and it was far too confrontational and unproductive. So Robo, as a guy who has done a lot for Voobly and a lot for Escape and who in my opinion should be/is very unbiased should be the perfect candidate to represent us to Voobly.

I agree that there should be a discussion and I agree that it should be moderated; else there is no moving forward. Hopefully it is clear from my response earlier and our actions that we are wanting to move forward. I am just really disappointed that our initial talks with Voobly where Robo was representing us has led to Robo being branded as a "so called "organizer"". But we can let that slide if everyone treats each other with respect going forward.

Edit: I would be in favour of having a locked discussion with a representative from voobly and a representative of Escape, plus one moderator to sort this out and come to a conclusion. With the rest of the community being able to see the discussion as a secondary moderating measure.
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  Rgeadn » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:00 pm

Maybe there could be other persons that represent escape gaming and voobly to try and talk to each other maybe unless using Robo as a medium works well for both parties.
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  Euler_ » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:10 pm

11 I love how both parties are pretending that they have done nothing wrong and are just blaming the other 11
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  DreamingFighter » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:44 pm

  16 Nov 2017, 20:10 GMT » Euler_ wrote:
11 I love how both parties are pretending that they have done nothing wrong and are just blaming the other 11


LOL :)
What do you expect? This is a public place, of course they would act like that. That's why issue like this should be discussed privately.
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  swissboyy » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:24 pm

Had a very productive talk with Chris.
The manipulation of the banner was a stupid mistake by certain individuals. Their actions don't represent Voobly or what Voobly thinks of this tournament. They are in full support of the event and the people that are funding and hosting it.
Chris also presented me with his side of the Escape vs Voobly saga and a bit of backstory, which was very illuminating. I'll try to get the other side and will try my utmost to connect both parties to work together for the greater good and the game we all love.

Everything that needed to be said on this has been said now, so I'll close this thread.
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