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[KotD] Banner manipulation and much more

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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  SMB360 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:43 am

  15 Nov 2017, 21:21 GMT » chris_voobly wrote:
We lost most of our streaming volunteers, because all of a sudden, there was someone who paid them.

Are you really claiming this? :roll:

My lifetime earnings to date from AoC: a single $15 private donation, balanced against around $500 of personally funding tournaments. Absolutely no involvement with Escape either before or after I led everyone on the VO team. A lot of the key non-streaming admin/support staff from the team I ran back then are still running fantastic tournaments like Nations Cup 3 and Noobs of AoC, incurring financial losses as they do so. After leaving VooblyOfficial they carried on doing the same voluntary work they had been doing before, only under an independent banner.

Approximately a year ago you gave your volunteers no option but to quit through your own decisions. It was out of nepotism that you pandered to a single person who received your support in undermining an entire staff department and their work. That was the reason why we all walked out. It had precisely nothing to do with Escape Gaming or ZeroEmpires.

Still waiting to hear where and when that $3500 USD of community-collected money I placed into your safekeeping will be used for its stated purpose.


For those who would rather see this 'drama' die down: when complete myths are being posted on a public forum then those myths must also be dispelled in public.
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  DraXieN » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:28 am

All involved in this, do you really believe you're doing the best for this community and this game with those discussions? Regardless how many posts you will make here, you won't win and we will only loose.
TheKkeif » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:07 pm

I'll come on Thursday, what time in Moscow?
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  _JoHnNy_ » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:02 am

  15 Nov 2017, 21:48 GMT » TheViper wrote:
  15 Nov 2017, 21:21 GMT » chris_voobly wrote:
So, the question is: why should we (Voobly) do business with such a person?

I think the reason you should try to do "business with such a person" is that it would benefit both the Community and Voobly. Choosing to hold us back because of a couple of unfortunate incidents that occured some time ago is just going to hurt us more, especially when it keeps us from playing tournaments on the best platform to play Age of Empires.

I don't know how they've approached you, but I hope you'll be open to discussing things if they approach you in the right manner. If not, you're letting your feud hurt our game.

+1 VIper. I hope all sides can look past past incidents and start having productive, non-biased discussions from now on.
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  Moneimon » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:34 am

  15 Nov 2017, 22:47 GMT » smarthy_ wrote:
tbh i think the transparency is good. having it in private conversations would only further the "shady shit" accusations. just sayin'

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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  buddy__1 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:52 am

  16 Nov 2017, 00:28 GMT » DraXieN wrote:
All involved in this, do you really believe you're doing the best for this community and this game with those discussions?

As with any relationship you have with other people, communication is key to get to the bottom of issues, and its the best way to find common ground. So if the different parties are open to working towards a goal, then we could find a way to get there.

About chris post, I see you took your time to explain your pov, so you are already invested in the matter. I understand you do your work voluntarily, which is great, but you are in a position of power regarding voobly, so you have a certain amount of responsibility, which is something I think you should consider moving forward.

The language I see from you is not something I would expect to see from a leader at all. I see you are very invested in voobly already with your 10 years as a technical admin. And while you may have been a great technical admin, which may have been part of what elevated you to be in charge of voobly for the last 18 months, I think you may realize it takes some different skills and personal traits to be a leader.

For instance I would say being a visionary and see into the future of what longterm goals you want to aim towards is one of these skills.

Another one is interacting with people, finding out what people want and listen to their voices as you make your choices. It's not the position to be selfish, and for someone as invested as you with both time and money, I'm very surprised by your first stance on the issue.

And sure, maybe zeroempires approached you the wrong way, or said something silly. But who cares. He's a young guy. Ask him to do better next time and move on like a normal human being. At least hes trying to make things happen, and if you ask me hes doing a great job.

By how you are acting now it seems to me you are trying to preserve something, and I would recommend you try to reach out for some fresh air before you choke the entire thing.

Maybe you don't naturally have what it takes to be a leader, but at the very least you could pretend you do and start communicating and try to move things forward.
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  HyunAOP » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:53 am

So, we going to let bygones be bygones or not? :(
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  JPence14 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:45 am

This is just sad.
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  malamadre » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:28 am

Now this is quality drama and not cheap dracont or metal threads about turkish cheaters.

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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  JoshuaR » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:04 am

  15 Nov 2017, 21:21 GMT » chris_voobly wrote:
  15 Nov 2017, 19:21 GMT » Hearttt wrote:
Point being, the community doesn't benefit at all from this kind of posts. Instead of working towards having Voobly and organizers find out a solution to the problems that pop up and don't allow for proper execution of tournaments (I.e Escape gaming tournies), this does the exact opposite.

One reason is, that ZeroEmpires has never spoken to me about this until today. When we were supposed talk about an "Escape Gaming tournament" where Escape Gaming gets our approval, to officially stream on Voobly, I wanted to talk to an Escape Gaming representative first and not to some $4 per hour paid so called "organizer", who asks me two questions on Skype, without giving us any background information and not even mentioning, that he acts on behalf of Escape Gaming.

Another fact is, that ZeroEmpires and I wanted to talk in 2016, but this never happened. I have always been messaged after midnight or during working hours. My suggestion was, that we make an appointment and talk on the weekends, where both of us have time, but again, it never happened. Then suddenly some of our own Voobly streamers started streaming as "EscapeGamingAoe" on Voobly (17th December 2016 at 04:29 PM Central Europe Time), even though this was clearly against our (old) Code of Conduct. So yeah, why ask, when you can simply take. When we asked those staff members, we were told, that they signed a NDA with ZeroEmpires and that they are not allowed to speak to us about this. So we made it clear back in December 2016, that you may only create a membership for yourself as an individual and not for your corporation or other business entity. More and more incidents and countless CofC violations occured and we had to remove all of those staff members who streamed on behalf of Escape Gaming. Not to mention all of the negative posts about Voobly, made by ZeroEmpires here on AOC Zone and also his behavior in the years 2014 and 2015 when Taff was still in charge.

So, the question is: why should we (Voobly) do business with such a person? And to say it clearly, I am not talking about Escape Gaming, I am talking about this individual who seems to speak on behalf of Escape Gaming, here on AOC Zone. Why should we even consider speaking to that individual, after all of his negative statements about Voobly and its staff in the past 18 months here on AOC Zone and his behavior on Voobly in the past.

Our original plan in 2016 was to partner with Escape Gaming and completely give up any plans on building up our own streaming team from scratch once again. Actually, this was our hope. What happened instead, was a nightmare for us. We lost most of our streaming volunteers, because all of a sudden, there was someone who paid them.

For those wondering, I'm also a volunteer like everyone else on Voobly. I am in charge of Voobly for the past 18 months now, and I am the technical administrator of this place for more than 10 years. I even was a SysOp on Zone until MS decided to retire our old Zone Village in 2006. As of today, I have spent more than 15,000 EUR since 2007 to keep this place alive, to help and assist players, to provide technical help and game ressources, to provide services like our knowledge base or teamspeak and more to ensure Voobly's survival. I was even hosting RTS-Sanctuary for a whole year when we had financial difficulties. Voobly is a community project and I want to thank all of its volunteers, who help and assist players in their free time without getting paid or receiving any donations.

This will actually be my last post about Escape Gaming and ZeroEmpires on AOC Zone. We (Voobly) will continue enforcing our policy, that we do not comment or respond to statements outside of Voobly. Also Voobly staff members are not authorized to make any statements on behalf of Voobly. Violations against this policy will result in immediate removal from our voluntary program.

"... et omnium ad venerabilem havere."

I know for sure there has been bad blood between Voobly and ZE dating back to tournament sponsors only allowing VO to cast and so forth when Zak was the "original noob caster" coming at the game from a new entertaining angle on his own stream and building up a following. Surely it seems like Voobly and he have had their differences in the past.

That said, I would hope that both sides would try to come together to talk about this rather than delivering finalities about where this relationship could go. AoE2 is experiencing a revolution of sorts with the advent of big youtubers, streamers, casters, Microsoft money and new investment in the game and the future of Age of Empires. This is a moment to capitalize upon. Viper is bringing thousands of viewers, and Escape tournaments thousands of viewers. In Zak's case, many many of these viewers come from HD, and many are in the gaming industry. Blocking these people from quality games on voobly limits the opportunity for the game, and voobly, to grow.

I can definitely understand how you feel about all this. But the community would really love for you guys to get together and talk it out.
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Re: [KotD] Super disappointed...

Postby  edie » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:40 am

I really hope both side can work together, if not for them, do it for the whole community who just wait it for years, don’t be stuck in the past, you could make this game advance and grow so much, you both do a lot for the game and devote time for it. This situation between you always made me sad.
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<DraCoNT won>
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[20:00] [Frantic]SOBIGDIAO says:

[14:21] poZ_edie says:
do u have facebook?
[14:21] poZ_Tammy says:
i dont play this game ..
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