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MoA5 SF WB CL vs St4rk (technical difficulties)

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Re: MoA5 SF WB CL vs St4rk (technical difficulties)

Postby  Zimon]_ » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:20 am

I feel like st4rk have the right to call for a admin win judging by the rules. Imagine sacrificing your own time (which might be a really important appointment) to schedule a tournament and the opponent won't be able to play.

However, we know that majority of the communities really want to see good games between them especially it is the semi-final of a well anticipated tournament. Everything comes with a price, communities could help st4rk financially to compensate his lost in real life due to the reschedule. It happened before in the nation cup, People would kindly help the Brazillian team when they have problems with their tickets. I am quite proud of what the AOC community right now and I think this issues could easily be resolved.
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Re: MoA5 SF WB CL vs St4rk (technical difficulties)

Postby  USC_kiky » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:25 am

I know it's a frustrating situation for *everyone* (not just St4rk). Don't know why we should punish either one if neither is at fault. Admittedly St4rk waited in the room for 1 hr and a half for the game patiently, but it wasn't like that CL didn't show up. Instead, CL spent 1 hr and 45 minutes in the room in fixing the issue, with the help of many other players present. St4rk wasn't the only one who sacrificed his time (or any other important appointments) for this match. Rescheduling may be inconvenient for St4rk, but isn't it the same case for CL?

Let's admit that 99% of the players won't expect a failure in the version update in game, because it always works properly, especially if you have never dealt with a Great Fire Wall in your life. The only difference is, if you don't have the right version, the auto-update will fix the issue for you in 1 minute, while for Chinese players it took them 1 hr and 45 minutes to fix it manually.

Regarding the time for rescheduling, I do think that there is no big deal to extend it for two more weeks, if one is not enough, since the change of version is a rare and unexpected event. It should be totally fine to extend one more week to the schedule of this tournament to adapt this change. After all, I think finishing this semifinal is more important than sticking to the deadline. But St4rk should have the privilege to pick the time for their match, if it makes the scheduling easier.
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Re: MoA5 SF WB CL vs St4rk (technical difficulties)

Postby  kw1k000000 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:04 am

It's an unfortunate situation created by a new balance patch release mid tournament. It could have been avoided by sticking to 5.6 patch from the very get go. What happened was that initially 5.6 was not going to be rated so everyone changed to 5.7 and then 1 day late 5.6 became rated and Gman reverted his decision to use 5.6. However the new rated version of 5.6 is 5.6.1 which is essentially same as 5.6

There is a lesson to be learned here about how to deal with HD balance changes mid tournament to avoid chaos & confusion like this.

No party is really at fault here & hopefully the games could be replayed. If not then Stark should get the admin win and CL can kick *** in LB. At the end of the day however unfortunate the situation is, CL could have avoided it by doing some play testing 1 day / 1-2 hour before the actual match time. Someone did mention difficult circumstances CL was going through in real life but then just take the AL and focus on things which really matter (like your kid's health).
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Re: MoA5 SF WB CL vs St4rk (technical difficulties)

Postby  Huehuecoyotl22 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:05 am

My opinion/questions about this, as I only read it yesterday evening:

1. I helped CL to schedule. I don't think I'm responsible for anything about this problem, but if anyone would have told me, I could have told him 25 hours before the scheduled time. I did not know anything about a 5.6.1. I'm not sure if I should have known. But I have not been online on Voobly since that existed and when I asked in the scheduling toping on January 30, whether I should tell him anything else than the civ settings and that it's best of 7, none of the admins or St4rk mentioned a 5.6.1. It was not their responsibility, but if it already existed back then, it would have been nice to let me know.

2. Would it have been wrong to play 5.6 instead of 5.6.1 after it wasn't possible to solve the problem in 30 minutes? Everyone knew before that the scheduling was not that easy, so did you think of it at that time? I have not seen St4rk making any problems and probably other people would have rejected to play a tournament game at 8 am on a Sunday, so I think St4rk should not receive any disadvantages.

3. As it is the semifinals already and not that many matches to be played anymore, did you ask about St4rk's time in 2+ weeks? Because many tournament finals have been delayed in the past for similar or less serious reasons. So I think asking St4rk whether he could imagine to play later and at what exact time, I hope would be possible. I'm not sure, but maybe CL could play at Chinese morning time one day too, which would be late evening in Brazil (e. g. 0 or 1 GMT = 21/22 for St4rk and 8/9 for CL).
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Re: MoA5 SF WB CL vs St4rk (technical difficulties)

Postby  kw1k000000 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:07 am

  06 Feb 2018, 05:25 GMT » USC_kiky wrote:
I know it's a frustrating situation for *everyone* (not just St4rk). Don't know why we should punish either one if neither is at fault. Admittedly St4rk waited in the room for 1 hr and a half for the game patiently, but it wasn't like that CL didn't show up. Instead, CL spent 1 hr and 45 minutes in the room in fixing the issue, with the help of many other players present. St4rk wasn't the only one who sacrificed his time (or any other important appointments) for this match. Rescheduling may be inconvenient for St4rk, but isn't it the same case for CL?

Let's admit that 99% of the players won't expect a failure in the version update in game, because it always works properly, especially if you have never dealt with a Great Fire Wall in your life. The only difference is, if you don't have the right version, the auto-update will fix the issue for you in 1 minute, while for Chinese players it took them 1 hr and 45 minutes to fix it manually.

Regarding the time for rescheduling, I do think that there is no big deal to extend it for two more weeks, if one is not enough, since the change of version is a rare and unexpected event. It should be totally fine to extend one more week to the schedule of this tournament to adapt this change. After all, I think finishing this semifinal is more important than sticking to the deadline. But St4rk should have the privilege to pick the time for their match, if it makes the scheduling easier.


No party is really at fault here & hopefully the games could be replayed. If not then Stark should get the admin win and CL can kick *** in LB. At the end of the day however unfortunate the situation is, CL could have avoided it by doing some play testing 1 day / 1-2 hour before the actual match time. Spending 1hr 45mins after the scheduled start time doesn't really cut it. CL assumed he was all set & ready for the match but clearly he was not. Someone did mention difficult circumstances CL was going through in real life but then just take the AL and focus on things which really matter (like your kid's health).
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Re: MoA5 SF WB CL vs St4rk (technical difficulties)

Postby  Lanchi » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:17 am

Yeah @Hue we are not blaming you that you are not there
If you don't know the firewall block updater, you would not make any help (just like what we did...)
5.6 have a Inca llama bug that make it can not be taken
.
this week carnival in brazil, and next week lunar new year (which is their biggest holiday in a year) in china, maybe it need more and more time
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Re: MoA5 SF WB CL vs St4rk (technical difficulties)

Postby  Slaiter » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:40 am

Last update regarding tournament was : viewtopic.php?f=1634&t=136456&p=550766&hilit=patch#p550766

''After some discussion with Jine and others, we agreed 2.7 WK and 5.6 HD patch will be the best way forward. So please use that from now.''

That means, if CL had only version 5.6 he had the wrong one, if he had 5.6+5.7 or only 5.7 he had the correct one, reading all rules and posts I dont see anywhere that a version 5.6.1 should be installed, which is the one CL was having problems to install from what i've been reading, so I doubt this is his fault, specially if he had his kid sick, which obviously didn't let him have much time to think on any of this. Not only that but he showed good will to play the match trying to fix it ASAP and showing up to match.

It's also obviously not St4rk's fault since he was there with his game version working, in time and even waited x3 the time before going away and ask for admin re, a good sportmanship conduct showing he wanted to play the match no matter what and something you don't often see in tournament, so thanks to him for that.

As a fix to this I suggest the following (since i've organiced couple tournaments myself and ran into problems also): If there are holidays in China (Lunar new year) + Brazil (Carnival), try to speak to players to give them 2 extra weeks to try to re-schedule the match so it's played and viewers / streamers won't miss it. This is not a game where people can live off it for now so everyone have things to do outside it, that's why of the 2 extra weeks instead of extra 1-2 days.

As a general rule of thumb for next tournaments: Don't start and end the tournament in 2 different versions to avoid this kind of problems + also players have been practicing since start in one version and changing it suddendly even if it's minor patches can hurt them a lot, also specify everything better in rules, since it seems like a copy-paste from previous tournaments
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Re: MoA5 SF WB CL vs St4rk (technical difficulties)

Postby  Huehuecoyotl22 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:44 am

  06 Feb 2018, 09:17 GMT » Lanchi wrote:
If you don't know the firewall block updater, you would not make any help (just like what we did...)
5.6 have a Inca llama bug that make it can not be taken.

I know that I could not have helped him installing well. But if he had known 24 hours or even more before the scheduled time instead of 10 minutes before, he could have asked someone to help back then.

  06 Feb 2018, 09:17 GMT » Lanchi wrote:
this week carnival in brazil, and next week lunar new year (which is their biggest holiday in a year) in china, maybe it need more and more time

Carnival starts this weekend, right? But does it last more than 1 week? And Chinese New Year is in 10 days with people roughly spending the week before and after preparing, visiting etc. Both big events, but not lasting longer than 2 weeks. Also, I don't know anything about CL's holiday plans, just the normal things you do for Chinese New Year from a few other people, but is it impossible to find one evening or morning during the holiday period where you can play on a suitable computer?
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Re: MoA5 SF WB CL vs St4rk (technical difficulties)

Postby  r0b0v » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:12 am

  06 Feb 2018, 09:07 GMT » kw1k000000 wrote:
If not then Stark should get the admin win and CL can kick *** in LB. At the end of the day however unfortunate the situation is, CL could have avoided it by doing some play testing 1 day / 1-2 hour before the actual match time.


I don't agree with this. CL already played several matches with official tournament version 5.6. Patch can be released 5 days or 1 hour before your scheduled time. It is hard to prepare for patch you don't know about. Even if CL knew about its existence, in case there is no confirmation it will be used, you expect you continue to use the official one confirmed (latest one could be in test, bugged, with balance changes....).
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Re: MoA5 SF WB CL vs St4rk (technical difficulties)

Postby  MaSmOrRa » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:29 am

  06 Feb 2018, 09:04 GMT » kw1k000000 wrote:
At the end of the day however unfortunate the situation is, CL could have avoided it by doing some play testing 1 day / 1-2 hour before the actual match time. Someone did mention difficult circumstances CL was going through in real life but then just take the AL and focus on things which really matter (like your kid's health).


But what would that have changed?
Nobody told CL about the change to 5.6.1 and the rules don’t mention it.
So even if he did some testing prior to his match, he would have tested his 5.6 patch and he would have confirmed that everything was working properly.

I don’t get it why some people are painting this as if it was only a waste of Stark’s time. It was also a huge waste of CL’s time through no fault of his own. The only difference is that CL was the only one trying to fix things, so it must have been even more frustrating to him.

Im wondering why the games were not played in the 5.6 patch though? The game balance is the same CL had it working properly. After 30 minutes of unsucessful attempts at fixing Cl’s 5.6.1 patch, why not just play the games in the 5.6 patch?
Last edited by  MaSmOrRa on Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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