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[BoA] Questions about Rules & Settings

Moderator:  swissboyy

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Re: [BoA] Questions about Rules & Settings

Postby  swissboyy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:49 am

  dogao wrote:
Adms can send message while you are in DND inside your game.


And then what happens if an admin isn't there for one of the games or someone misses a bugged map? Do I force teams to replay after a full game or even set? And let's say I do and one of the parties can't re-schedule because they are busy the rest of the week?
What happens if an outsider didn't read the rules carefully or made a mistake, messaged the player when the map wasn't bugged by definition of the rules and the other team finds out and starts complaining about the unfair restart the other side got when they lamed two boars and had the perfect map?

I'm not being stubborn for the sake of it, I just need to write rules and settings that are clear, require minimal admin work and allow games to be played independently from whoever is watching. I can't be there 24/7 to make a decision and the only other party that must read the rules and can be punished for breaking them are the players. That's why decision must only be made by them.

  dogao wrote:
Arabia is the most played map in the history aoc AoC, and you still can get a bugged map, so imagine in the rest.


KotD had the exact same rules regarding map bugs and less restarts for the players. Nobody complained about the rule and in ~130 games on the default Arabia map not a single "bug" occurred. In the BoA version of the map there are no cliffs for things to get trapped in, less overall wood and starting sheep that basically sit under your TC so you can start to scout your stuff instantly. The other maps - again, check them out - should have an even smaller risk of a resources being trapped since they are super small, super open or both (see Rorarimbos post for more details: viewtopic.php?p=553062#p553062).
But if you tried the maps and still feel it's impossible to scout some or all of them in time I'll gladly bump up the time to 6, 8, 10 minutes or even remove the time limit completely. I'm happy to change if there's a good argument.
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Re: [BoA] Questions about Rules & Settings

Postby  nimanoe » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:02 am

  15 Jan 2018, 23:38 GMT » swissboyy wrote:
  nimanoe wrote:
On top of that there are quite a few situations where it's not entirely clear if a map is bugged for a player, so an admin will still have to look at it.


There's no situation where an admin needs to look at it. What is and isn't a bugged map is clearly defined in the rulebook.

If one or more of your units (scouts, horses, villagers) or resources (berries, golds, stones, boars, deer, sheep) are stuck inside a forest (less than 50% accessible by at least 3 tiles) you can restart the game for free in the first 4 minutes.

So what if you don't have a third gold or second stone (assuming standard resources)?
  dogao wrote:
I dont see any reason why adms/streamers should not do that.


It's the players responsibility to know about the full rules and settings, not the job of the streamer to understand what exactly is a bugged map and what isn't. If a mistake happens players shouldn't be able to blame a 3rd party.


It's still the players responsibility to find the bugged map, it just helps a lot when streamers and/or admins can say when the map is bugged and it saves a lot of time as well. What do you think will happen when a player didn't find his third gold or stone and it turns out that it's bugged? Do you think he will not blame the admin for making the rule that hasn't been there in over 3 years of tournaments and afaik never caused any problems?

Also can you please elaborate what you mean with this in the R&S:
Week 2 - 5: Teams with the same number of wins / losses play each other. If more than two teams have the same score, teams will face opponents they haven't met before. If they haven't played any possible opponents, matches will the determined using the seeding model that was already used in R1.


Does this mean that if Seeds 1 till 4 win their first match in the first round, the match-ups for round 2 will be seed 1 against seed 4 and seed 2 against seed 3?
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Re: [BoA] Questions about Rules & Settings

Postby  MembTV » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:56 am

i wonder if all this people asking about the maps have downloaded the maps and played, because probably all those questions going to be answer with that, play, test, and come with the feedback, i played 20 games more or less, got 0 bugged map yet.

Hope people practice and give the feedback.
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Re: [BoA] Questions about Rules & Settings

Postby  swissboyy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:21 am

@ nimanoe
Added a part about missing starting resources leading to a bugged map.

Players blaming a clear written rule that was obvious to everyone before the start sounds good to me. Much better than being in the tricky situations I described in my last post.

Re you question: Spot on. Fixed the typo in the part you quoted (the instead of be), otherwise that part should be pretty easy to understand.
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Re: [BoA] Questions about Rules & Settings

Postby  Poxo » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:02 am

Swissboy you could make a map pack with all the 5 maps. Teams like training with map pack instead of picking up the map.
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Re: [BoA] Questions about Rules & Settings

Postby  swissboyy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:35 pm

Yeah, can do that if the interest is there.
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Re: [BoA] Questions about Rules & Settings

Postby  nimanoe » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:14 pm

Still got some questions about the seeding in the Swiss Stage:
Does it matter for the seeding if you win 3-0 or 3-2?
In the fourth round, when there are 3 teams who won 2 games and lost 1 and 3 teams who won 1 game and lost 2, I'm still not completely sure how the seeding will be determined.
Also, I think it's possible that in the fifth round some teams will be forced to play against each other who already have played, so it might be good to clarify that.
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Re: [BoA] Questions about Rules & Settings

Postby  DreamingFighter » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:01 pm

I don't know if my question is obvious or not, but still:
This is a team tournament, then why using 1v1 elo as seeding? Why not using TG elo?
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Re: [BoA] Questions about Rules & Settings

Postby  Rorarimbo » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:02 pm

SB should answer when he is around so this is only my interpretation.

I think first three rounds may be preseeded by the rating with which the teamns enter but we will have to see. In round 5 there may be only two teams left so potentially its possible they played before.
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Re: [BoA] Questions about Rules & Settings

Postby  swissboyy » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:52 am

  17 Jan 2018, 14:01 GMT » DreamingFighter wrote:
I don't know if my question is obvious or not, but still:
This is a team tournament, then why using 1v1 elo as seeding? Why not using TG elo?


Too easy to achieve rating by getting carried and too random. Just have a look at the team game ladder.

  nimanoe wrote:
Still got some questions about the seeding in the Swiss Stage:
Does it matter for the seeding if you win 3-0 or 3-2?
In the fourth round, when there are 3 teams who won 2 games and lost 1 and 3 teams who won 1 game and lost 2, I'm still not completely sure how the seeding will be determined.
Also, I think it's possible that in the fifth round some teams will be forced to play against each other who already have played, so it might be good to clarify that.


It does matter, yes. Semi finals will be seeded using the number of losses in the group stage. Best vs worst teams.
Round 4 will have a match were a 1-2 team will have to face the 2-1 team, yes. First I'll try and match teams that haven't played against each other. If that leaves multiple options, I'll use the group stage seeding and match the lowest 2-1 vs the highest 1-2.
If there are no other options teams will play each other more than once, yes.

The explanation of how exactly the Swiss format works wasn't spectacular, reworded that part of the rules & settings.
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