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BCC2 Training - Korea kkab versus _DauT_ Serbia

Game tutorials, strategies, tips & tricks
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BCC2 Training - Korea kkab versus _DauT_ Serbia

Postby  BugA_the_Great » Mon May 10, 2010 6:25 pm

With "Brain Champion Cup 3" almost finished (in a very interesting manner), we revive the history of former season of this epic competition, reminding you of what it takes to come on top, claiming the best player title and a huge money prize.

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Once these great games could be found on DeX clan forums, and it was (korea) kkab`s wish not to reupload them anywhere else.

Now, since Dex clan site is no longer available, with kkab`s permission, AoCZone brings you these fine battles once again. Thanks, kkab! :$

Watch the fights that became a part of AoC heritage, and read what this expert player and one of the best AoC strategiest had to say about the games he played with (serbia) _DauT_, helping him to find his way to the BCC2 throne...

p.s. We even wanted to present you the last pack (games 61~71 mentioned in the last post), never posted before, but unfortunately those seem to be lost forever -.-

Table of Contents (click to visit)


Originally posted by L_Clan_Derptus on The Legion Clan forums. (link)

    "After almost 4 months of intense, interesting and dramatic battles we are announcing that BCC2 is oficially OVER!

    The final standings are :

      1. _DauT_
      2. poZ_Tammy
      3. _CyZ_MiLaoShu
      4. _WraTh_
      5. L_Clan_Alive
      6. [EoK]dogao
      7-8. L_Clan_Chris
      7-8. _FJ_psNps

    Congratulations to Daut for winning the tournament and thanx to everyone who paricipated in this great AoC event! Hope to see you all in BCC3!"

Originally posted by (serbia) _DauT_ on The Legion Clan forums. (link)

    "I would like to thank Kkab for all the practice games we have played last month (around 90 and all will be posted soon by kkab), tnx again it was fun and those games improved me a lot!"
Image
 BugA_the_Great
 
Posts: 3369
Joined: Mar 13, 2010
Location: Bor, Serbia
Age: 32
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Re: BCC2 Training Games - Korea kkab versus _DauT_ Serbia

Postby  BugA_the_Great » Mon May 10, 2010 6:29 pm

Originally posted by (korea) kkab on DeX Clan forums.
Reposted on AoCZone with kkab`s permission.


download: » Training games - pack 1 (01~10) (1.82 MB)

" I only recently started playing Aoc again on march 10th. Although my studies and work take at least 15 hrs each day, I had an urge to play a few games of aoc. I logged on to IGZ but had trouble finding anyone to play. Luckily, Daut was logged on to msn, so i told to daut please win bbc2 this time. He said, "I will". Then I asked if he wanted to play a few games with me. As a result we started playing these games.

By the way, just so that we are clear -- i always think Daut can be no. 1 in bbc2 without my help. He is enough strong, and had passion and practiced much games. I just happened to be around and played these enjoyable games. It helped me recall my good old memories of AoC. I had previously thought that I knew all about aoc what other experts knew. But these games with Daut showed me that such was not the case, and I learned many things from Daut.

I Stopped playing 1v1 since 2002 when koven went to the army. For a long time I couldn't find 2.2k+ games and it made me bored of 1v1. That’s why i started playing ln teamgames. Teamgames had a different fun element to them. For a very long time I never thought 1v1 was fun anymore. But these games with Daut gave me 1v1 fun feeling again, and i was happy.

Congratulations to daut win bbc2. aoc fan can see how he decide strategy to counter enemies. grunt and halen and koven practiced like it with me old times. but we didnt like upload record. Years ago i made how to 1.6k to 2k with bsk_coolman nick.

This will be similar fun to aoc fans showing how the winner practiced for tournament.

Out of the just over 100 games we played, i have 70 or so records. Sometimes we forgot to record, and other times i didn't bother to upload cause i was at various net cafes. But i tried to save most of the games because i knew aoc fans would love them.

since i have around 70 games i thot i would upload 10 games/week giving some explanation about how we think. i didnt know record explore program. and i show our chat there before game how we think.

it will be too fun.

good bye aoc to me again. :$..

but i will be around there. :$

specially thx to poisn. he trasnfer this writing. :$ he is only one who can understand my english perfact. :$
please dont upload it on other site.

i want upload on only dexclan."
Attachments
Use icon to link to single game from the pack (right click, copy link).
Use icon to download single game from the pack (.ZIP only, no folders inside).
Attachment: kkab vs daut _bcc2_train_01.zip
AoC Zone • RECORDED GAME
10 Games • Show all Link this game
Downloaded 1812 times
 BugA_the_Great
 
Posts: 3369
Joined: Mar 13, 2010
Location: Bor, Serbia
Age: 32
 1514 (47%)
 

Re: BCC2 Training Games - Korea kkab versus _DauT_ Serbia

Postby  BugA_the_Great » Mon May 10, 2010 6:32 pm

Originally posted by (korea) kkab on DeX Clan forums.
Reposted on AoCZone with kkab`s permission.


download: » Training games - pack 2 (11~20) (2.02 MB)

"Daut and I played Arabia strictly for the fun of it. Since Arab strats are pretty similar for all the league stage players, we didn’t work on any new strats. Arabia was played for fun, but it did also help to make our hands move much faster.

The first few arena games were strictly booming games. But after many games we felt that booming was not the best answer. 4-5 relics makes your econ stronger than the boomer, cause you can sell gold to buy stone for castles, or to buy food for faster imp age.

When I started to play land nomad, I almost exclusively did a boom strategy, and even if I got a bad civ I could still win almost everytime. But after a while everyone learned how to boom like me or halen, and I had a hard time winning with bad civs. My boom on ln was simply to make 5 or 6 tc and reach imp around 34-35 mins with 3-4 castles and make UUs. But it is sometimes really bad if enemy does the same and has a counter civ – example: I am brits and my enemy is goth.

So, I wanted to have a strategy for other civs, so I developed one that I think works well. You can see it here: http://dexclan.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=43 (its my lastest strategy in ln.)

This stragey is just reach imp age 3 mins later than boom strat. but can mess up your enemy eco pretty bad.

Concerning arena then, I thot if you can reach imp 3 mins later than enemy on Ln. but u gather the relics in arena. it makes similar or more fast imperial age up than enemy. it would be the best strategy. Of course you still need another strategy to hurt enemy econ, (about gold and stone spot. or small or big speace in wall. and also sometimes it depends on the map.

All castle war is like that with normal eco(however, this does not apply to maps like nomad with many ships, or a resource heavy map like RF

Also, monk and few scouts and siege isn’t too expensive. And the boomer still needs to make 2 buildings or a castle before can reach imperial.
So, we figured if the resources are nearly the same, and taking relics is good for long games, and you get map control. Finally, civs don’t matter very much in arena with this strategy because all civs can make scout, siege and monk.

Good civs have just a little advantage.

For example: huns is better than korean for sure, eco vs eco. but korean has +1 range to siege since castle age, which helps even things out a little.

Now, a boomer needs to be left alone till over 21 mins. If the rusher can touch the boomers eco before this time, it is likely that the boomer will fail/lose. Thats how daut won ding in arena with korean against huns.

I also thought about alive(he was first vs daut.) Alive is also a good player. All league stage player can be top. Alive rated at IGZ is 2.4k+, but when he played daut he played like 2.1k rated.

All players can’t play their best all the time. Alive was in a bit of a slump in the 2nd stage games. I expected Daut can win him then without a problem.

Halen and Grunt used turk fast imperial rush at 2001, 2002(someone would see they used it in tourament). But if I used 5 archery I could defeat them with it. But they used 18-19mins fast imp age up. However, Daut made a stronger eco and a little later imperial age. Therefore my previously tested strategy to defeat turk fast imp failed. Daut also taught me that knights will be good vs them.

Ok, have fun and watch the games. :$"
Attachments
Use icon to link to single game from the pack (right click, copy link).
Use icon to download single game from the pack (.ZIP only, no folders inside).
Attachment: kkab vs daut _bcc2_train_02.zip
AoC Zone • RECORDED GAME
10 Games • Show all Link this game
Downloaded 1361 times
 BugA_the_Great
 
Posts: 3369
Joined: Mar 13, 2010
Location: Bor, Serbia
Age: 32
 1514 (47%)
 

Re: BCC2 Training Games - Korea kkab versus _DauT_ Serbia

Postby  BugA_the_Great » Mon May 10, 2010 6:36 pm

Originally posted by (korea) kkab on DeX Clan forums.
Reposted on AoCZone with kkab`s permission.


download: » Training games - pack 3 (21~30) (2.09 MB)

"These practice games were before daut vs dogao match up.

i noticed from the recs that almost everyone was doing 10~15 scout and 20~25 ranger units and 24~26mins castle up in arabia.

And we talked about the differences with dings fast castle in arab. I tried to copy it many times and Daut tried counter it. daut decided much scout and lately archery and little wall is good vs it.

24th record what I died same like Dogao :$

I didnt watch many games how ding played arena, but I noticed that he always went with a boom to imp style, after which he went mainly halberdiers. No one can win expert with halberdier. Why you ask? Because the halberdier is a great unit to make in early imperial because it is too strong for what it costs. Ding always makes it. And if enemy counters with more halberdier ding simply adds in a counter unit (ex: scorpion or archer or heavy knight.)
thats why he loves halber at first time. push and makes enemy eco little bad. and counter it then.

Knowing this, we practiced how to counter it. Also, we tested if enemy counters with monk and siege, because in all visible, enemy can see what u are doing.
On arena(25th, 26th, 27th), daut wanted to know how to counter a spanish rush.. and he wanted practice vs it..:$
i used it one time and told him: monk + monk h/p up+castle+fast imperial will be good.
and we changed civs. and used it. :$


Now, about the 6 vills to berries build order in arabia.

Anycall taught it to me. he really loves i used his new or gay strategy in real game. :$
he really wanted me to test it out vs daut – so I did many times.

With huns, you only need 50 wood for a lumber camp, 75 wood for a mill, and 175 for a barracks. Then, upon reaching feudal, you only need 175 more for an early stable (or range). This is a total of 475 wood.

I could make a lot of food with sheeps villager. If i need more food, I put more vills on sheep. Or if I need more wood, I can send vills to wood. ur villager who is taking sheep in tc is keypoint to balanced wood or berries.

Playing aoc you need to have your resources properly balanced. (example: 11 vills to wood, 4 vills to berry, 6 vills to sheep) A good balanced arrangement can let you do everything you need.
an example.
If you are wondering why relics are so good on arena, its because your vills can work on other duties. If you have 5 relics, 4-5 vills on gold is enough to supply your needs. Your other vills can take wood and food. The effect is like your economy has 120 vills, while in actual fact you might have only 85 "real" villagers.

Further explanation would go like this:
If you have 120 vills, 40 vills to food, 40 vills to wood and 40 vills to gold/stone. But if you have 5 relics, you can have still 40 vills to food and 40 vills to wood and 5 vills to gold (just like the guy with 120 vills) but you only need roughly 85 vills to do an equivalent output. But you havent needed the food to make those extra 35 workers (this is a huge food savings). Arrangement is important on resources.

If you can recall my 5 stable strategy in land nomad, it is the same sort of arrangement logic. I would always do it AFTER 60 vills. (30 farmers, 20 vills to gold) I could upgrade and make full knights. The vills after 60 can go where needed, but they aren't necessary to keep the 5 stables in full use. Its the arrangement of vills and timing that makes the difference here.

In practice game 26(its my first time to tested this build order) my wood is too far, but because I don’t farm and have a good arrangement sending vills faster to wood, it helps eliminate the problem from being overly damaging. thats how i alived till 23mins well. but this build order needs much wood after 23mins.bcuz i needed make re-farm. but i didnt know it. and my all wood gone.. thats why i couldnt make much archer after time.

Let me explain the thinking a little more. If you make 2 farms in dark age, you will need to re-make these farms around 15-16 mins mark. This costs you an additional 150 wood to replant them at such a critical time in the feudal age. This means something has to give. You can’t both make fast h/p up, and fast castle age, because you don’t have the resources to do it all.

Now, with 6 vills to berries you don’t need to make 2 farms in dark. Then you can make 20 farms faster than normal, and it lets you make faster many scouts and fast castle too.
And as an added bonus, if your enemy rushes and towers your berries, its no real loss because you have harvested most of the resources by then.

In the final analysis, the resources between the two builds evens out to be about the same, but 6 vills to berries gives a benefit vs rushers and if your wood is far. If you are short of sheep, you can still make farms in dark then.:$

i tested it still finishes all games vs daut. and my build order changed little more more..:$

ok watch on fun. :$

really thx to poisn to transfer it. i know fix my bad english is really hard. but he never complain for aoc fans even he is really busy and no time.
we all love him. :$"
Attachments
Use icon to link to single game from the pack (right click, copy link).
Use icon to download single game from the pack (.ZIP only, no folders inside).
Attachment: kkab vs daut _bcc2_train_03.zip
AoC Zone • RECORDED GAME
10 Games • Show all Link this game