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New Expansion (Site Added 19 Sep)

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Re: New Expansion (Site Added 19 Sep)

Postby  Barbarossa89 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:41 am

I actually don't have a problem with the current cost of the eagle warrior upgrade. Sure, it's more expensive than cavalier, and gives less of a boost in absolute terms, but each individual eagle warrior is cheaper, so it will probably affect more units than the cavalier upgrade. Also, 3 base PA in castle age is pretty good, and the eagle warrior is strong enough to take on knights and crossbows both; especially mixed in with the appropriate trash unit.

People are still just too used to playing meso civs by going fast imperial to avoid the subpar castle age with no knights. Once they get the hang of the fact that meso civs can actually play a decent castle age, they might actually want to use this time, rather than just rope-a-doping until imperial, the way they've been doing.

That way, when they get imperial age later than they used to, they'll have a larger economy and be able to go EEW right off.
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Re: New Expansion (Site Added 19 Sep)

Postby  Carlos Ferdinand » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:14 am

but each individual eagle warrior is cheaper, so it will probably affect more units than the cavalier upgrade.
I hope you arent saying that the cost of ew reduces due to the upgrade. And what if it affects "more units", x knights have the same value of 2x ew, so it does not matter at all if it affects more number of units.
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Re: New Expansion (Site Added 19 Sep)

Postby  Elendil_1500 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:02 am

bosses where is the patch ? S:
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Re: New Expansion (Site Added 19 Sep)

Postby  predator145 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:10 am

  17 Feb 2013, 06:41 GMT » Barbarossa89 wrote:
I actually don't have a problem with the current cost of the eagle warrior upgrade. Sure, it's more expensive than cavalier, and gives less of a boost in absolute terms, but each individual eagle warrior is cheaper, so it will probably affect more units than the cavalier upgrade. Also, 3 base PA in castle age is pretty good, and the eagle warrior is strong enough to take on knights and crossbows both; especially mixed in with the appropriate trash unit.

People are still just too used to playing meso civs by going fast imperial to avoid the subpar castle age with no knights. Once they get the hang of the fact that meso civs can actually play a decent castle age, they might actually want to use this time, rather than just rope-a-doping until imperial, the way they've been doing.

That way, when they get imperial age later than they used to, they'll have a larger economy and be able to go EEW right off.


I think the deciding factor of being in imp is blacksmith superiority. Plate mail makes a huge difference due to the fact that it gives +2 PA instead of 1. An EEW with no attack upgrades and all armor upgrades is nearly unstoppable to a castle age opponent. That thing can just disperse and run all over enemy eco, laughing at TC fire. EEW usually means gg for the other guy.

On the other hand an eagle warrior with +2 attack and +2 PA isn't as scary. Competent raider? Yes. Immune to arrows? No.
It's definitively more balanced to nerf the early imp EEW flood.

But I'm afraid the cost of the EW upgrade is too high, making the castle eagle not strong enough to stand up to castle age heavyweights with good knights (huns, slav, teutons, franks, per, vikes) . Pure Eagle warriors still can't stand toe to toe with knights. Not to mention the buffed longswordsman with even more attack bonus against eagle line. Going all out castle may result in defeat.

Eagle ecos are gold heavy. Coughing up 450 food is not easy meaning Mesos will be stuck with near useless Eagle Scout for quite a while if they decide to go for eagle straight from early castle. Now if it's a tiny bit lighter on food, they will be able to take advantage of that window of opportunity to do damage before enemy can muster enough knights or transition into swords. Xbows are no problem with 3PA.
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Re: New Expansion (Site Added 19 Sep)

Postby  tik » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:48 am

  17 Feb 2013, 09:02 GMT » Elendil_1500 wrote:
bosses where is the patch ? S:
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Re: New Expansion (Site Added 19 Sep)

Postby  Caelir » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:54 am

We're compiling everything at this moment. Expect to see the patch within the next 10 hours. Sorry that we can't give a more clear indication.
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Re: New Expansion (Site Added 19 Sep)

Postby  Barbarossa89 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:26 pm

  17 Feb 2013, 07:14 GMT » Carlos Ferdinand wrote:
but each individual eagle warrior is cheaper, so it will probably affect more units than the cavalier upgrade.
I hope you arent saying that the cost of ew reduces due to the upgrade. And what if it affects "more units", x knights have the same value of 2x ew, so it does not matter at all if it affects more number of units.


  predator145 wrote:
  17 Feb 2013, 06:41 GMT » Barbarossa89 wrote:
I actually don't have a problem with the current cost of the eagle warrior upgrade. Sure, it's more expensive than cavalier, and gives less of a boost in absolute terms, but each individual eagle warrior is cheaper, so it will probably affect more units than the cavalier upgrade. Also, 3 base PA in castle age is pretty good, and the eagle warrior is strong enough to take on knights and crossbows both; especially mixed in with the appropriate trash unit.

People are still just too used to playing meso civs by going fast imperial to avoid the subpar castle age with no knights. Once they get the hang of the fact that meso civs can actually play a decent castle age, they might actually want to use this time, rather than just rope-a-doping until imperial, the way they've been doing.

That way, when they get imperial age later than they used to, they'll have a larger economy and be able to go EEW right off.


I think the deciding factor of being in imp is blacksmith superiority. Plate mail makes a huge difference due to the fact that it gives +2 PA instead of 1. An EEW with no attack upgrades and all armor upgrades is nearly unstoppable to a castle age opponent. That thing can just disperse and run all over enemy eco, laughing at TC fire. EEW usually means gg for the other guy.

On the other hand an eagle warrior with +2 attack and +2 PA isn't as scary. Competent raider? Yes. Immune to arrows? No.
It's definitively more balanced to nerf the early imp EEW flood.

But I'm afraid the cost of the EW upgrade is too high, making the castle eagle not strong enough to stand up to castle age heavyweights with good knights (huns, slav, teutons, franks, per, vikes) . Pure Eagle warriors still can't stand toe to toe with knights. Not to mention the buffed longswordsman with even more attack bonus against eagle line. Going all out castle may result in defeat.

Eagle ecos are gold heavy. Coughing up 450 food is not easy meaning Mesos will be stuck with near useless Eagle Scout for quite a while if they decide to go for eagle straight from early castle. Now if it's a tiny bit lighter on food, they will be able to take advantage of that window of opportunity to do damage before enemy can muster enough knights or transition into swords. Xbows are no problem with 3PA.


The upgrade to eagle warrior will affect more units than the upgrade to cavalier. One can expect to make more EWs over the course of a game than cavaliers, meaning the upgrade affects that many more units. Of course eagles are not becoming cheaper. But they are cheaper than knights, and significantly easier to mass therefore. Especially when one considers the superior meso economies.

EW is not designed to go purely toe-to-toe with knights, but can now survive better, and are easier to mass still. Do EEWs beat cavaliers? Maybe not one on one, but there are usually more eagles, because they are cheaper, making them effective. Obviously, as paladin gets researched, and it gets toward late imperial, where population matters more, eagles fade off. But meso civs aren't meant to have super late imperial power anyway.

If you have 15 knights with bloodlines, and I have 20 eagle warriors, I might not be in such a good position. But if I can just hold out a little, and get 30 eagles to your 20 knights, I'm in a better position. And how about 50 eagles to 30 knights? The odds continue to be in my favor. It's hard to out-produce eagle warriors with knights.

An eagle warrior will have 5 PA in castle age. He will take all of two damage a hit from crossbows and TCs. That's quite competent for the castle age; certainly better at surviving TC fire than knights. Once imperial rolls around, even without EEW upgrade, the final armor upgrade will allow them to shrug off TC fire at 1 damage a hit. As mentioned, the PA is more important than the attack for early imperial. If anything, this makes meso civs even better for early imperial warfare. The upgrades for a unit that takes only one damage a hit from TCs now cost less combined than in AoC. EEWs just improve this.

The difference is that now a meso getting imperial before you've clicked up is no longer a gg.

Learn a new strategy. It's not all about the fast booms to imperial anymore. Castle warfare is viable.
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Re: New Expansion (Site Added 19 Sep)

Postby  Aguruchi » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:00 am

  17 Feb 2013, 10:54 GMT » Caelir wrote:
We're compiling everything at this moment. Expect to see the patch within the next 10 hours. Sorry that we can't give a more clear indication.

Thank you!
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Re: New Expansion (Site Added 19 Sep)

Postby  justtesting1234 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:01 pm

will this thread be updated? :)
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Re: New Expansion (Site Added 19 Sep)

Postby  Aguruchi » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:14 pm

I think this game really started reviving the past 2 years...
We'll just have to wait and see how far it can go :-)
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