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Announcement: HD Spectator overlay

Take part in AoE2HD discussions, share strategies and gaming experience
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Re: Announcement: HD Spectator overlay

Postby  n0brain » Fri May 05, 2017 12:54 am

I think it's a big problem, HD currently has literally no anti-cheat systems


i wanna point out that at least the system im using is also working on voobly and almost impossible to prevent without completely changing the game. it has nothing to do with it being HD or voobly, its an inherent problem with all multiplayergames that work via shared simulation. all kinds of additional anti-cheat systems i currently know of would make this harder, but by no means impossible if u know what ure doing.

i do think its better to make something like it for streamers. it at least shows issues in the games data security and provides it to streamers. cheaters would do there own version anyways.
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Re: Announcement: HD Spectator overlay

Postby  Tempires » Fri May 05, 2017 11:34 am

  04 May 2017, 23:54 GMT » n0brain wrote:
I think it's a big problem, HD currently has literally no anti-cheat systems


i wanna point out that at least the system im using is also working on voobly and almost impossible to prevent without completely changing the game. it has nothing to do with it being HD or voobly, its an inherent problem with all multiplayergames that work via shared simulation. all kinds of additional anti-cheat systems i currently know of would make this harder, but by no means impossible if u know what ure doing.

i do think its better to make something like it for streamers. it at least shows issues in the games data security and provides it to streamers. cheaters would do there own version anyways.


well if there isn't any for cheaters yet, soon there will be as they have idea about it+ you said it isn't even that hard to make
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Re: Announcement: HD Spectator overlay

Postby  Fijure » Fri May 05, 2017 11:48 am

  05 May 2017, 10:34 GMT » Tempires wrote:
  04 May 2017, 23:54 GMT » n0brain wrote:
I think it's a big problem, HD currently has literally no anti-cheat systems


i wanna point out that at least the system im using is also working on voobly and almost impossible to prevent without completely changing the game. it has nothing to do with it being HD or voobly, its an inherent problem with all multiplayergames that work via shared simulation. all kinds of additional anti-cheat systems i currently know of would make this harder, but by no means impossible if u know what ure doing.

i do think its better to make something like it for streamers. it at least shows issues in the games data security and provides it to streamers. cheaters would do there own version anyways.


well if there isn't any for cheaters yet, soon there will be as they have idea about it+ you said it isn't even that hard to make


In principle, people could have used stuff like this for cheating in a long time, if they've just kept it to themselves. People cold be using it right now and nobody would notice. I don't really think the creator of this deserves to be blamed for this when he even refuses to publish it openly though.
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Re: Announcement: HD Spectator overlay

Postby  kw1k000000 » Fri May 05, 2017 12:15 pm

Something is better than nothing so for casting it would be an improvement.

The fact that 2 people have already done this separately makes me wonder is it really that hard if you want to do it? Without knowing any details it seems like they are reading a file in which game data is being logged locally. If a file like this is unsecured then obviously it can be misused.
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Re: Announcement: HD Spectator overlay

Postby  patao » Fri May 05, 2017 4:50 pm

There was never anything preventing anyone with the desire & capability of cheating with this method from doing it already. The public knowing it's possible is a mild incentive, but that was never such a huge question in the first place, given that the game is a shared simulation as n0brain said. @kw1k, more or less, let's not discuss further in public to not make it any easier than it already is?

N0brain & anyone else that has actually implemented this should be commended for not releasing it publicly since that would probably lead to a mass proliferation. May happen someday though, which will suck.

Until the OpenAge engine is ready (https://github.com/SFTtech/openage/issues/740) there doesn't seem to be much to do about it.
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Re: Announcement: HD Spectator overlay

Postby  LegendOfSocks » Fri May 05, 2017 5:02 pm

I guess it can be possible to create a program that locks down any files that are needed for this. So that the general public cant abuse.
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Re: Announcement: HD Spectator overlay

Postby  patao » Fri May 05, 2017 6:50 pm

  05 May 2017, 16:02 GMT » LetsImprove_ wrote:
I guess it can be possible to create a program that locks down any files that are needed for this. So that the general public cant abuse.


It is unfortunately not possible to lock down. :? The only option is a new engine.

And in the interim, if it becomes a serious problem it may be possible to either obfuscate the information to make it somewhat more difficult (someone like UP team may be able to do this), or detect if someone is doing it and bring down the ban hammer before they can adjust their methods to be less detectable (someone like Voobly may be able to do this).
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Re: Announcement: HD Spectator overlay

Postby  n0brain » Sat May 06, 2017 1:43 am

i want to point out that this is something that is not fixable in an easy way. its not really possible hinder people from accessing data on there own computers, locking some files maybe keeps some script kiddies out, but definitely not a determined skillfull programmer with too much time. the only real protection against things like this would be to have an gameengine with a server-client model that delivers data to clients only on an as needed basis. the data about the covered map or ur opponants etc shouldnt even be on ur machine in the first place.

also i wanna say that its at least not trivial atm to gain the stuff like maphacks etc. so even if other people allready managed to do stuff like overlays etc, i highly doubt that its a lot or that it has massive impact. luckyly for us as a community, even if u have all the overlayinfo its still a hard game to play.
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Re: Announcement: HD Spectator overlay

Postby  patao » Sat May 06, 2017 2:32 am

  06 May 2017, 00:43 GMT » n0brain wrote:
even if other people allready managed to do stuff like overlays etc, i highly doubt that its a lot or that it has massive impact. luckyly for us as a community, even if u have all the overlayinfo its still a hard game to play.


Exactly. One more reason to support the OpenAge engine, but for now, it's probably not dire. The better player should still win, at most the overlay would give some insight into strat choice, but between game knowledge, proper scouting, and the in-game score most of that information is already available to good players.
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Re: Announcement: HD Spectator overlay

Postby  n0brain » Sat May 06, 2017 5:45 am

im pretty sure openage wouldnt solve this too. as far as i know they use a shared simulation model too.
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