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Why Scorpions > Mangonels in Huns war

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Re: Why Scorpions > Mangonels in Huns war

Postby  Tocaraca » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:11 am

  23 Jan 2018, 00:05 GMT » malamadre wrote:
Man I saw you lose like 10 times against Jomenal in his stream. You made scorps, they died, you died. But you died because you are a worse player with bad build orders. ...In any case, mangonels arent even a good choice in huns war, so scorps may actually be useful.


I am indeed a worse player than Jomenall. However I recall a few of my Huns wars games with him where Scorpions successfully pushed away his cav archers, better than Mangonels would have (Jomenall's archer micro is too good for my mangos 11).
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Re: Why Scorpions > Mangonels in Huns war

Postby  ImRiver » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:13 am

Ok, I love scorpions myself, and use them every time I see fit. In hun war I'll do two or three scorpions if I feel like defending vs Crossbow, however I'll hardly do that vs CA. CA has a lot of HP and can tank one hit of a mango/scorpion before hitting and 1- or 2-shot killing. I prefer that it is a shot of mangonel.
Also, some things I'd like to point out:

1) if you have a scorpion microing vs CA, it will probably die fast and you won't have time to repair. With a mangonel you can take much more damage and so if you end up winning a fight (or if he leaves cuz don't wanna take the risk) you can repair it, that cost a lot less than making a new one. So in the long run scorpion is worse than mangonel.

2) CA+Mangonel vs CA+Scorpions. You'll just have a really hard time winning that batlle with scorpions. I'd say even impossible.

3)A mangonel I can use after defending to go and push him, with scorpions that's just not possible. Scorpion can't kill a tower and won't destroy buildings at all

4) Siege is a pain in the *** to micro and move arround the map, I prefer to micro two mangonels and not 4 scorpions

--> So as a defense unit vs some crossbow it works very good. In the long run, there's not much space for scorpions.
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Re: Why Scorpions > Mangonels in Huns war

Postby  Tocaraca » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:25 am

  23 Jan 2018, 02:13 GMT » ImRiver wrote:
CA has a lot of HP and can tank one hit of a mango/scorpion before hitting and 1- or 2-shot killing. I prefer that it is a shot of mangonel.


That's intuitive, however scorps fire faster than mangos, so 2 scorps can deal just as much damage as 1 mango, maybe even more because their projectiles are way harder to dodge.

if you have a scorpion microing vs CA, it will probably die fast and you won't have time to repair. With a mangonel you can take much more damage


This is false. Scorpions take 40 shots from a Cavalry Archer, Mangonels only take 25 shots. Keep in mind I'm talking about the expansions where scorps have 7 piere armor. In AoC, scorps only had 6 pierce armor just like a mango.

CA+Mangonel vs CA+Scorpions. You'll just have a really hard time winning that batlle with scorpions. I'd say even impossible.


Valid point. I usually use Knights+Scorpions so that's why I didn't consider that issue.

A mangonel I can use after defending to go and push him, with scorpions that's just not possible. Scorpion can't kill a tower and won't destroy buildings at all


Scorpion can kill a tower if you repair it, it just takes a long time! Kappa :lol:

I think you're right about scorps being much worse than mangos when you go offensive, but not defensive.
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Re: Why Scorpions > Mangonels in Huns war

Postby  andreskbr » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:06 am

  23 Jan 2018, 02:25 GMT » Tocaraca wrote:
  23 Jan 2018, 02:13 GMT » ImRiver wrote:
CA has a lot of HP and can tank one hit of a mango/scorpion before hitting and 1- or 2-shot killing. I prefer that it is a shot of mangonel.


That's intuitive, however scorps fire faster than mangos, so 2 scorps can deal just as much damage as 1 mango, maybe even more because their projectiles are way harder to dodge.


Not really. Mangonels make way more damage to units close to the shot. If you have Ranged Units yourself, that does a HUGE difference when you fight the damaged CA. It also helps when you bring more Siege Weapons to stop them.
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Re: Why Scorpions > Mangonels in Huns war

Postby  Tocaraca » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:14 am

  23 Jan 2018, 03:06 GMT » andreskbr wrote:
  23 Jan 2018, 02:25 GMT » Tocaraca wrote:
  23 Jan 2018, 02:13 GMT » ImRiver wrote:
CA has a lot of HP and can tank one hit of a mango/scorpion before hitting and 1- or 2-shot killing. I prefer that it is a shot of mangonel.


That's intuitive, however scorps fire faster than mangos, so 2 scorps can deal just as much damage as 1 mango, maybe even more because their projectiles are way harder to dodge.


Not really. Mangonels make way more damage to units close to the shot. If you have Ranged Units yourself, that does a HUGE difference when you fight the damaged CA. It also helps when you bring more Siege Weapons to stop them.


True, a Mangonel might have more damage potential if it hits a tightly packed group of units, but mango shots are also more likely to miss than Scorpion shots. Sometimes mango shots don't even deal any damage, and even if a scorpion shot misses, the scorps attack faster so it's less of an issue. A missed mango shot is more punishing.

I do think, though, that if you are really behind and you want to have one last chance to maybe come back, it would be better to try and get lucky by making Mangonels and try to score a massive shot, rather than to make Scorpions which are more reliable but also don't quite have the potential to wipe out a whole army like mangos can.
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Re: Why Scorpions > Mangonels in Huns war

Postby  gerry » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:18 am

this tocaraca is noob.i think easy kill.
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Re: Why Scorpions > Mangonels in Huns war

Postby  Tocaraca » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:24 am

  23 Jan 2018, 03:18 GMT » gerry wrote:
this tocaraca is noob.i think easy kill.


I'll get my 10 quintillion guidance conselors to come and beat you up, then I'll get my weightlifting buddies on you as well :)
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Re: Why Scorpions > Mangonels in Huns war

Postby  gerry » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:27 am

if u have such a hard on for scorps why not learn celts?if u can find recs of a guy called tsc_blade,he was best celt player in aoc history imo.he could even win daut huns with celts.
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Re: Why Scorpions > Mangonels in Huns war

Postby  andreskbr » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:28 am

  23 Jan 2018, 03:14 GMT » Tocaraca wrote:
True, a Mangonel might have more damage potential if it hits a tightly packed group of units, but mango shots are also more likely to miss than Scorpion shots. Sometimes mango shots don't even deal any damage, and even if a scorpion shot misses, the scorps attack faster so it's less of an issue. A missed mango shot is more punishing.

I do think, though, that if you are really behind and you want to have one last chance to maybe come back, it would be better to try and get lucky by making Mangonels and try to score a massive shot, rather than to make Scorpions which are more reliable but also don't quite have the potential to wipe out a whole army like mangos can.


This is why you have to be careful to choose WHEN and WHERE to fight with Mangonels. The more you have, the more the certainty of getting at least a good shot(number your Mangos or select them manually to attack ground more than 1 place or 1 group does normal attack and other Attack Ground in a different spot). By the way, the same idea works for Mangonels fighting against Towers. It annoys me how some players fight Towers with only 1 Mangonel and spend tons of res repairing when they could add 1 or 2 more Mangos and have a better position to clean up Forwards or push the enemy.
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Re: Why Scorpions > Mangonels in Huns war

Postby  Tocaraca » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:32 pm

I’m surprised at why people make Mangonels vs towers rather than making a Battering Ram which costs less, does not need to be repaired, and can easily break through palisades protecting the towers
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