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RANT ABOUT KHMER BEING **** SHIT

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Re: RANT ABOUT KHMER BEING **** SHIT

Postby  Little_Jacob » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:49 pm

  TriRem wrote:
Give Khmers thumb ring so they can go cav archers

its not so simple, because if you're an aoe2 dev and you wish to keep the civ's historical accuracy you shouldn't make cav archers be a convenient choice for khmer
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Re: RANT ABOUT KHMER BEING **** SHIT

Postby  dodageka » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:57 pm

  12 Feb 2018, 22:13 GMT » Tocaraca wrote:
Heavy Scorpions are situational; they’re perfectly viable when your opponent just has regular Onagers, it’s just when the opponent has Siege Onagers and/or some onager bonus that scorps become kinda useless.


But that is exactly how it should be - scorps should never be viable when there are mangonels or onagers on the map - they are good in their niche, like most units are. Same goes for the civ as a whole, really strong in TG pockets, potentially OP in DM, OKish in Arena and vs. full infantry and useless otherwise
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Re: RANT ABOUT KHMER BEING **** SHIT

Postby  SteamKing » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:00 pm

  13 Feb 2018, 13:49 GMT » Little_Jacob wrote:
  TriRem wrote:
Give Khmers thumb ring so they can go cav archers

its not so simple, because if you're an aoe2 dev and you wish to keep the civ's historical accuracy you shouldn't make cav archers be a convenient choice for khmer

Here we go sgain, the old argument of historical accuracy. Guess what? This game is only loosely based on history and not in the slightest accurate. China has no gunpowder on land even though they invented it, a horse can survive a SO shot to the face and a house somehow can't be broken into and exited on the other side. History has to make room for competitiveness in this game.
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Re: RANT ABOUT KHMER BEING **** SHIT

Postby  SteamKing » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:02 pm

  13 Feb 2018, 13:57 GMT » dodageka wrote:
  12 Feb 2018, 22:13 GMT » Tocaraca wrote:
Heavy Scorpions are situational; they’re perfectly viable when your opponent just has regular Onagers, it’s just when the opponent has Siege Onagers and/or some onager bonus that scorps become kinda useless.


But that is exactly how it should be - scorps should never be viable when there are mangonels or onagers on the map - they are good in their niche, like most units are. Same goes for the civ as a whole, really strong in TG pockets, potentially OP in DM, OKish in Arena and vs. full infantry and useless otherwise

The problem is that mango's are too prominent which effectively shuts scorps out of the game completely
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Re: RANT ABOUT KHMER BEING **** SHIT

Postby  dodageka » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:05 pm

  13 Feb 2018, 14:02 GMT » SteamKing wrote:
  13 Feb 2018, 13:57 GMT » dodageka wrote:
  12 Feb 2018, 22:13 GMT » Tocaraca wrote:
Heavy Scorpions are situational; they’re perfectly viable when your opponent just has regular Onagers, it’s just when the opponent has Siege Onagers and/or some onager bonus that scorps become kinda useless.


But that is exactly how it should be - scorps should never be viable when there are mangonels or onagers on the map - they are good in their niche, like most units are. Same goes for the civ as a whole, really strong in TG pockets, potentially OP in DM, OKish in Arena and vs. full infantry and useless otherwise

The problem is that mango's are too prominent which effectively shuts scorps out of the game completely



I think the problem is also that Infantry is not prominent enough, making mangonels more viable and scorps less useful - if there was more infantry in the game, I think there would be more scorps as well. So WK clearly is a step towards the right direction there.

Also, maybe people need to focus more on sniping mangos down then when they want to go scorps
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Re: RANT ABOUT KHMER BEING **** SHIT

Postby  SteamKing » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:14 pm

The problem is that scorps are slow, hard to micro and they all die to a decent mango shot
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Re: RANT ABOUT KHMER BEING **** SHIT

Postby  Tocaraca » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:47 pm

Scorps aren’t just infantry counters, they’re counters to most melee units once massed, with the exception of Paladins (which they do decent against with a meatshield) and ofc Siege Rams.

The problem is you can have a large army of scorps and then the opponent brings in a couple of Onagers and your whole army dies. This isn’t that big of a problem when against regular Onagers (since they do less damage and can be more easily sniped), but against Siege Onagers, they’re just not viable. You can’t snipe SOs easily enough before they get a shot in which kills like half of your scorps. You can’t escape the shot because scorps are too slow and have large hitboxes.

That’s why Khmer are so shit, because their main late game unit is their Heavy Scorpion, and the unit simply isn’t viable enough of the time for it to be a reliable option. Arbalests and Paladins do have counters but they’re much more mobile and have a lot of flexibility to allow them to deal with their counters; hscorps do not.

Either hscorps need to have some way to not get rekt by SOs with no escape, or Khmer need to have some other late game option so that they can do something against SO civs. EBE are too expensive for 1v1 usually.

I’d love if they had access to Block Printing so they could convert Siege Onagers from 12 range behind their scorps but they’d probably still get a shot off and kill half of the scorp army
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Re: RANT ABOUT KHMER BEING **** SHIT

Postby  dodageka » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:34 pm

Khmer can also bombard cannons against SO - this is usually the best counter to them
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Re: RANT ABOUT KHMER BEING **** SHIT

Postby  Tocaraca » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:43 pm

  13 Feb 2018, 16:34 GMT » dodageka wrote:
Khmer can also bombard cannons against SO - this is usually the best counter to them


Yeah and it doesn’t work. Even if you snipe the SOs with your BBC, they will still get one or two shots on your Heavy Scorpions and kill your entire army. Unless you have god tier BBC attack ground micro, it’s unrealistic to be able to kill all of the SOs before they get in range to shoot.

You can’t snipe the SOs with light cav either, because the lcav just die instantly to halbs defending
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Re: RANT ABOUT KHMER BEING **** SHIT

Postby  SouFire » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:55 am

  13 Feb 2018, 03:22 GMT » Tocaraca wrote:
  13 Feb 2018, 03:03 GMT » SouFire wrote:
No way, enough monk civs already, leave khmers the way they are, did u see lierey the other day the mighty sneak couldn't do shit against fully torqued khmer wing.


Stop sucking the Khmer's *** dude, everyone (in the pro scene) agrees that Khmer are not fine the way they are.

Having Atonement doesn't make you a Monk civ, it just makes you viable on Arena. If you don't have a good unique unit (Khmer do not, Ballista Elephants are niche) then you have to have a decent smush or a really good boom otherwise you are bottom tier. That's exactly what Khmer are, bottom tier. Persians at least have a very good boom, Mongols at least have a useable unique unit, Portuguese at least have a decent smush. On Arena, there's nothing as bad as a civ with a bad smush, bad unique unit, and only a decent boom (they get extra wood from their FC which helps a lot at the start but that's where their bonuses end).


Why would i? there are not higher level than lierey and viper right now, lierey owned viper as wing with khmers, i don't need expert opinions or urs when i have facts and evidence 8-) also that game had minimal intervention from the pkt so go and study it and see what lierey did with them, i didn't see lierey complaining like any other expert would have done, he even got the maximum power of them, there was nothing viper could have done or his team mates to aid him, it is the same like in aoc with sara or koreans.
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