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Beloved AoC - known bugs, issues, limitations, suggestions

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Beloved AoC - known bugs, issues, limitations, suggestions

Postby  BugA_the_Great » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:09 pm

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PLEASE NOTE: This topic is not about game/civilization balances (which might come up as another matter in a separate topic), but game bugs, issues, limitations and suggestions instead. The point of this topic is pretty important, so we would like to keep it clear and straightforward. Any flaming and off-topic discussion will be deleted without any prior notice. Thanks for understanding.

Hi to the whole community,

Age of Empires II: The Conquerors (AoC) is more than 10 years old game, and as such has some bugs that were discovered through the years, but there was no one to fix them because the official support for the game has been canceled, or the fixes weren`t very convenient / were scattered inside different patches (not working together).

This might change in the (near?) future (read here). As life teaches us not to believe in words till we see the deeds, we can`t say if it`s really going to happen, but I just know that we would all like it to be so. I also know that what we can actually do as a community is to list all those bugs we discovered through the years, whether they irritated us, or we used them as an advantage, so if anyone gets a chance to fix them, he can check this list and get working.

We`ll keep the list updated, trying to make it clear as much as possible. Feel free to discuss it, and suggest bugs/issues/limitations/improvements not on the list yet (please check first if it`s already on the list before you post), preferably with an explanation how to recreate it / when does the bug or issue happen, or with detailed explanation if it`s a game improvement suggestion (though please try to be realistic about it, lol).

I repeat, no one promises that this will ever be fixed / implemented, but if there`s any possibility, the first step would be to make a to-do list, and what we can do is make that first step. If you find this topic a waste of time, please stay out of it (and let the rest of us at least dream about it happening, lol).

This is not an easy task, so please be constructive, straightforward, and let us make this easier for all of us.
Thanks for understanding, and your support.

Let us try to do something good for this game, so we can all enjoy it for decades to come ;)
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Re: Beloved AoC - known bugs, issues, suggestions

Postby  BugA_the_Great » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Trying to contribute, I`ll leave AI fixes and (possible) game balance fixes (if any) to people more into those, while I will try to remind of some known (more or less) "core game" bugs ruining the gameplay, and features that already exist but are not yet merged into one patch (not yet fixed or implemented into UserPatch v1.1).

Please note that not all bugs might be easily reproducible, some occur only in specific situations (and usually with multiplayer lag involved) and fixing them might be pretty hard (locating the bugged code that is), so if you find anything in that assembler code - good, if not, never mind, thanks for the effort anyway. Here we go...


A. CORE GAME BUGS (not yet fixed in v1.1):

  1. Color bug on Windows Vista / Windows 7 - easily fixed through writing a registry entry, as described here. But maybe a more straightforward solution is possible (if needed)?
  2. Freezing bug on Windows 7 (Vista, too?) - hardly reproducible, happens occasionally. Computer freezes completely (restart needed), while music is still playing normally. It can happen anytime once the game started, or not happen for weeks of playing. I read that it is related to DirectDraw and Win7, when they both try to write to the screen (Win7 not respecting DirectDraw exclusive screen more, something like that), causing the display deadlock. I also heard that it it`s been fixed in Win7 Service Pack 1, but I can`t confirm.
  3. Restored games cannot be recorded (tracker), even if you check "Record game" upon restoring. I saw this has already been reported, but just wanted to say that it maybe should get a major flag (severity), as recorded games are one of the most important things that keep AoC community alive. Being able to watch experts play tough matches is priceless, while analyzing your own is a way to success. As drops happen on tournaments (having people from all over the world inside the game, and usually poor connection), many excellent games were not recorded because of drops and restoring. It really ruins the game for all those expecting to see the legends in action, and recorded games is what tournaments are all about - and there are still big money involved tournaments that bring back expert players, and provide so much fun and joy for the community watching their recorded games... if they don`t drop :/
  4. Computer player(s) lag in multiplayer (AI issue?) - Having computer players (AI) in multiplayer games can cause severe lagging. As an example, I played a lot 2v2 games with my friend against 2 AIs, and always around 20 minute mark (if I remember right) the game would start lagging a lot (almost a complete halt, then works for a few seconds, then freezes again for 10 seconds, and so on). After a while it would be back to normal, but interesting thing is that it would always start lagging at almost the very same moment in time, each game (we played each game till 25', so I don`t know if this lagging happens again later).
    I remember ES_MattP talked about AI path finding calculations, but except that, maybe AI is doing some other calculations at that point in time, causing lag?
  5. Wrong "Reveal Map" in recorded games. "Normal" works fine (shown in rec as in game), but if "Explored" is selected, it will be shown as "All visible" in recorded game (and vice versa, "All visible" shown as "Explored" in recorded game). More info and tool for fixing recorded games here.
  6. Cooperation chat bug - When someone coops (two players pick same color) and selects random team, there is a chance that the chat (who chats to who, who gets to see the chat) will be randomly changed. If this happens, you need to go to chat menu and select your allies (so you only chat to them by default).
  7. Inaccurate information - Fixing small in-game mistakes, like that technology tree saying that Goths have 25% cheaper infantry, while they in fact (in game) have 33% cheaper infantry.

B. GAMEPLAY BUGS (not yet fixed in v1.1):

  1. Walk-through walls (houses, maybe other bulldings, too?)
    (1) If you build your tower in the corner of the wall (usually enemy`s wall, as on Arena map), you can garrison your units inside, drop a gather point behind the wall and ungarrison, and your units might appear on the other side. It also works sometimes with units garrisoned inside a ram (ungarrisoning on the other side of the wall, not necessarily in the wall corner, usually if the ram is crowded by other units around it), and it might work for created units appearing outside of walled building (walled Siege Workshop might create units that will appear on the other side of the wall).
    (2) Sometimes, (enemy) units tend to walk directly through the wall as it doesn`t exist (happens really rarely, but I`ve seen it a few times), once saw it happen with built houses (enemy units walking through the wall of houses, or more like "over" them, as they were flat on the ground). One game was lost because of this bug :P
  2. Gaps in walls - if the hill is too steep, and you build a continuous wall there (dragging your mouse), the wall still might have "cracks", allowing enemy units to pass through it. You can`t "patch" the wall, as wall blocks are placed on each possible tile, but due to elevation difference some gap appears after all.
  3. Can`t build over dead trebuchet. You can build (place foundations and start building) over all other units, but not over destroyed trebuchet.
  4. Trebuchet shot does not make any damage - if a treb is shooting at castle, but gets killed before its fire hits the castle, this fire will make no damage to the castle once it hits it. It`s working with some other buildings too, but not all.
  5. "Instant build" villager bug - specific villager(s) gets into "turbo build" mode, building even castles with only one or two hammerings. Hard to reproduce, but it`s reported that it can happen after a villager, while repairing the wall, is being hit with a cannon ball (from bombard cannon, conquistador rifle...), or with mangonel shot (while building something?), and player instantly reschedule him to continue repairing (or start building something), rather than flee from being attacked. Example game link here, watch red player building walls around 00:21:40. This "instant build" mode turns itself off after some time has passed (5 seconds, 25 seconds...?). Multiplayer lag might "help" this bug to happen.
  6. Idle farmer - if you reach enemy farmer with your scout`s (for example) line of sight (while the villager can`t see the scout) and attack the villager by right-clicking him several times, but then move the scout somewhere else (before actually attacking him, or entering his line of sight), the villager might get idle, as it is under attack, while it actually isn`t (multiplayer lag might "help" this bug to happen).
  7. (not really) Exhausted farm - sometimes the farmer returns from dropping off food, and that "farm exhausted" sound is heard, making the farmer stand idle in the center of the farm. The only problem is that the farm is not exhausted, graphics show it still has food on it, if you click it it says it still has food on it, but if you right click with farmer selected to continue working (or reseed, if really exhausted) nothing happens. Farm needs to be deleted, then built again.
  8. "Scout bug" - known for a long time, happens sometimes when your villager gets killed by an opponent`s scout. Then if you use "Idle villager" hotkey (or if that killed villager was assigned to some number as hotkey and you press that number) your screen moves to unexplored fog-of-war (actually centering that enemy scout, but you can`t see it as it is in fog-of-war). Like villager`s soul got transferred to that enemy scout :P This is annoying (screen moving), and it reveals scout position of your enemy, which is not fair. The bug can last as long that scout is alive.
  9. "Fog of War" being see-through - once you explore a map area (so that black fog of war becomes gray, allowing you to see the map layout of explored area even if you don`t have it in units line of sight):
    (1) You can see a dead wolf (if your enemy kills one), even though you can`t see the wolf while it is alive, which makes it possible for a player to predict movement of enemy units (those that killed wolf). Player can delete the wolf corpse by placing palisade foundation over it, and cancel building it, but the corps shouldn`t be visible anyway through the fog of war. Only if scout (or other unit) comes close and get that corpse in LOS (line of sight), it should be (and stay) visible (not if attacking player already deleted the corpse with palisade).
    (2) You can see that enemy is cutting the tree, through the fog of war (you see the tree cut in half).
    (3) You can place a building foundation (palisade, house, whatever) into the fog of war, and you are able to see all enemy units that pass over it - while enemy can`t see your building foundations as you haven`t started building them yet.
    (4) You can use buildings (house, for example) as a radar to "scout" around the map. You can`t see through the gray fog of war (you see there the last thing that was there when you scouted), but if you try to place a building foundation on the location where enemy units/buildings are (even if you shouldn`t know that, you can`t see it as it is not explored since last exploration when those units/buildings weren`t there), your building (house) will become red while you hover your mouse over that location, indicating that you can`t build there, and giving a clue that there is something there (enemy unit/building). This shouldn`t work like this, but you should be able to set foundation, and once the builder gets there and location gets into his line of sight, if the location is occupied, the foundation should disappear and resources restored to the player (ES_MattP explained it in his topic, regarding AoC Graphics).
    (5) You can see deer and boars in fog of war (explored). This is fine, but once your opponent scares them away you can see them running around, thus revealing your opponents movement in fog of war, it is not fair. Also, if enemy attacks your boar, trying to steal it, you will see the boar running through explored fog of war. Same goes for killed boar/deer, you will see their corpse in explored fog of war.
  10. Buildings not visible behind other building - The best example is when your enemy puts relics in his Monastery, then builds a Castle in front of the monastery so you can't see the monastery at all - you don`t know it even exists, nor you can attack it. Another example is palisade wall not being visible behind a building - you can`t go between two buildings because there`s a palisade tile between them (for example), but you can`t see it, and can`t attack it.
  11. Visible enemy`s gather points - when you select enemy building, you can see its gather point (appears as X on the mini-map).
  12. Unit conversion bugs - Once you convert (with a monk) an enemy unit, it keeps its stats prior to conversion. But later in the game, it can even downgrade, or change. Some examples...
    (1) Aztec monk bug - if you are playing Aztecs, with fully upgraded monks, and you convert an enemy monk (non Aztec monk), the monk will keep its stats prior to conversion. But, if you pick up a relic with that monk and then drop the relic, the monk will instantly change to fully upgraded Aztec monk.
    (2) When you convert a siege onager, and your civilization doesn`t have onager upgrade, it`s still the siege onager. But once you repair it, it will turn into mangonel instantly.
  13. Two types of Huskarls - if you have huskarls produced in castle and in barracks, you can't select all of them by double-click. They are considered to be different units, and if u go to army mini-map, to check your army numbers, huskarls from barracks are not counted there. People even reported that huskarls built in castle fight much better that the ones from barracks (could they be using different AIs?)
  14. Sometimes spears can hit units behind the palisade wall (wall doesn`t have any gaps in it, bit like they can reach through it with spears).
  15. "Scaring" the boar/wolf - when a boar/wolf is chasing your villager, if you are fast enough you can place a building foundation (house, for example) over the animal, and it will slow down, moving away from the foundation. Once it gets out of it, it will continue chasing the villager, but you then remove foundation and place it over the animal again, slowing it down again, until your villager runs away.
  16. Deleting Town Center by mistake (or other building) instead of deleting idle villager - not necessarily a bug, but it is annoying and maybe can be fixed. When you want to delete idle villagers quickly (usually in later stages of the game when population limit is reached), you usually press Idle Villager hotkey, then Delete, and repeat this quickly. If you don`t pay enough attention (because you`re in the middle of the battle), if you have any garrisoned villager(s), when you press Idle Villager hotkey, instead of selecting that villager the game will select the building which holds that villager - and once you press delete to delete the idle villager - you will delete the building :/
  17. Custom scenario "speedy spawning" - (reported by user) In custum scenario in aok there was a scenario called herofest. Units were spawning from a main castle, if you build a workshop on spawnpoint the villager couldn`t build it, but it tried to hit the seige workshop, causing the spawned unit to jump away fast so another one gets created instantly. It increased spawned units by 50%
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Re: Beloved AoC - known bugs, issues, suggestions

Postby  BugA_the_Great » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:10 pm

C. GAME FEATURES (some already implemented in various fan patches, but not united into one single patch):

  1. Game version readable from recorded game file, once it`s changed to v1.1 for good. For example, version AOC 1.0c now has this (hex) 04 00 00 00 F4 01 00 00 in the game file, the "game start" command, while AoC 1.0 has 03 00 00 00 F4 01 00 00. This helps tool makers to recognize the recorded game version file, and inform players of game version they need in order to replay the game. Something should be put into recorded game file to indicate that game version is v1.1 (maybe 05 00 00 00 F4 01 00 00 :P)
  2. Check "Fog of War", uncheck "Demo Loop" on start of the recorded game replay. It feels more logical, as people want to see what the player was able to see, and they can uncheck "Fog of War" to see everything (rather than vice versa). Also, with "Demo Loop" checked the games is instantly replayed from beginning once it is over, so you can`t examine the last battlefield situation, nor go to Achievements screen without replaying the whole game again (but unchecking "Demo Loop" this time). Unchecked default state for "Demo Loop" and checked for "Fog of War" seems as a logical move.
  3. Play game in window (rather than full screen) - VEG made this possible, in his patch (check ChangeLog for more info on changes made). Window mode should be optional, maybe as a parameter for launching the game? -window, or something, if possible. It is important to say that playing in window mode fixes issues with game freezing on Win7 (which happens sometimes with original game, due to DirectDraw problem?).
  4. Custom in-game resolution (wide and standard) - made possible by boekapart, in his patch. It would be good to make this one optional, and customizable too. Another parameter for game launching? Like -res1920x1200, -res1366x768, or whatever (if possible). It doesn`t really matter if bottom and top menu graphics are stretched a bit (as boekabart made it, to cover purple no-texture background), because the feeling it gives is fantastic - no stretched (fat) units on wide monitors, and you can see as much of the battle field as your monitor allows (as an option, you don`t have to play in your max monitor resolution, as it is not always the best solution - hard to move mouse across big distances on large monitors without running with your mouse all over the room, and if you raise mouse sensitivity then it will be hard to have good unit micromanegament).
  5. More random map seeds (more variations) - currently, there can only be around 100,000 variations of a certain map. For Arabia (maybe the most played map), that number is too small, people get same maps sometimes :P Anyway, if the number of seeds could be raised, it would be an excellent thing, providing even more map variations (for all maps).
  6. Mirror Random Civilizations - Very interesting game setting proposed by the community, random civilizations, but each team gets the same ones (for example, Hun + Azt + Byz vs Azt + Hun + Byz).
  7. "Spectator" mode - being part of the game (something like coop, cooperation), but without a possibility to chat, and you can switch players to see their point of view (with fog of war, as they see it, or you can turn it off). It would be great for "live" streaming of the matches ("live" because it should be delayed a bit, not to allow people to spy on each other).
  8. Replay recorded game directly (by double clicking the game file) - it should open AoC and replay the desired recorded game automatically (no need to go through game menus and select recorded game). When recorded game ends and you close Achievements screen, AoC closes (not going back to Main Menu).
  9. Even faster recorded game playback - beside Slow, Normal and Fast playback, add some much faster playback option so it is possible to fast forward some parts of the game much faster than it is now.
  10. Folder structure for SaveGame folder - so the game sees recorded game files placed in separate folders (placed in SaveGame folder), and not only games in root SaveGame folder. It would make recorded game files organizing much easier (if it could even read from packed .ZIP files, it could be great... but maybe it is too much to ask? :P )
  11. Enable -MidiMusic parameter hidden in exe file (as VEG did in his patch), so the game can play midi files from "Sound\midi" folder.
  12. Enable playing mp3 music from folder (if possible, in same manner as midi music from "Sound\midi" folder). I remember VEG sad that he already saw something about it in exe file, just that it needs appropriate enabling.
  13. Wait for dropped player - when someone drops in the middle of the game, to be able to rejoin the game, while others are waiting (on the voting screen, for example).
  14. Network play model improvement (if possible) - make it possible to play the game without a need to forward ports. Game clients like Voobly and GameRanger already offer this functionality, through their "NAT traversal", but I think that some kind of server is needed for it to work, at least until the connection is made. Any other solutions?
  15. Fixing float point precision issue - I don`t know if it would benefit the game now, but I remember ES_MattP mentioned it in that other topic...
  16. Anti-cheat (if possible) - system of some kind to make cheating as hard as possible (not to say impossible).
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Re: Beloved AoC - known bugs, issues, suggestions

Postby  BugA_the_Great » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:10 pm

reserved post
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Re: Beloved AoC - known bugs, issues, limitations, suggestio

Postby  _MariaN_ » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:32 am

Oh god there is so many things to say... really... but first what a great thing. Totally. I can't put in words...

Ah! BugA there is so much to say... ^^. Could you tell me the range of possible things?
  30 Dec 2012, 19:30 GMT » ZeroEmpires wrote:
Marian has never seen a boob before, unless we're counting that man-boob he saw at the swimming pool last week.
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Re: Beloved AoC - known bugs, issues, limitations, suggestio

Postby  The muffin man » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:18 am

one of the most annoying things in aoc is boar luring bugs
when your villager just decides its gonna stop cruising back to ur tc and instead go 1v1 with the boar and get its ***** *** mauled
this is annoying as ****, i know it always happens if u send it to do something lik chop wood, but sometimes they jus do it 4 no reason at all
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Re: Beloved AoC - known bugs, issues, limitations, suggestio

Postby  eueueu3x » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:02 am

Just order the villager to garrison and it won't happen.

A bug that has to be fixed is that of that screen of tgs, when someone put's wait and the game just don't continue...
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Re: Beloved AoC - known bugs, issues, limitations, suggestio

Postby  _MariaN_ » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:19 am

I said the same thing in Heaven, but I will say it here again.

Bugs/Issues
  1. As eueueu3xsaid: by the voting window in multiplayer (if someone drops) is possible to stop playing by just choosing save and exit (even if all other players go to continue game).
  2. Forbid to make a map shot during the game (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=48093)

Suggestion (personal wishes)
  1. As TOAO_Nai said, it would be cool to have an option by civ choice "mirror random". So a random civ, but the same civ for both players.
  2. Also it would be cool to have an option with where the own civs are hidden from the opponent.
  3. For Rec watching, allow to move to other folders. (not only /recorded games but also /recorded games/MotH, recorded games/my games etc.
Last edited by  _MariaN_ on Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  30 Dec 2012, 19:30 GMT » ZeroEmpires wrote:
Marian has never seen a boob before, unless we're counting that man-boob he saw at the swimming pool last week.
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Re: Beloved AoC - known bugs, issues, limitations, suggestio

Postby  [EIF]BokiSergy » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:59 am

Game defiantly needs some more "more comfortably watching recs" features. When u watch a rec would be so useful if u can scroll trough, determine speed, etc.. Some features for more flexible "continue the game with record", should be added that it can be recorded. If someone drops, game should be upgraded with some "smart mechanism for recovering dropped player" ( for example game can freeze as it usually do, but player would be able to join again while others wait him: via IP, or lobby. ) If u press some button, in middle of watching rec, u can get the "screen of players statistics" anytime in middle of watching of rec, so u can see kills, ages times, current levels of pop, res.... Or better, to stick some kind of transparent stats at side of screen which gonna show it in real-time. That things would really be useful :)
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Re: Beloved AoC - known bugs, issues, limitations, suggestio

Postby  _MariaN_ » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:06 am

Yeah, watching Rec should be improved, but I didn't know how to put into words.

Another thing is to make a option in single player to simulate lag. (so delay of commands)
  30 Dec 2012, 19:30 GMT » ZeroEmpires wrote:
Marian has never seen a boob before, unless we're counting that man-boob he saw at the swimming pool last week.
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